Early Spider Ball and Skipping Screw Attack

Paraxade:

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Paraxade: 2010-03-14 05:23:54 pm

Paraxade: 2010-03-13 08:31:46 am

2010-03-13 08:13:07 am

Figured something this awesome deserves its own topic :P If this doesn't get some activity in this board nothing will. We've been thinking about early Spider for years.

So you might've seen me post about SW13 in Landing Site A the other day. I've been having tons of fun with it today, and I've been able to enter East Elysia AND do everything required there without Screw Attack, in addition to making a long and tedious wallcrawl to pick up Spider Ball early - both of these can be done as soon as you have the Plasma Beam and have repaired the AU. I've got a video of early Spider below - clearing east Elysia without Screw Attack requires a tricky route involving a little wallcrawling and a couple fun jumps.

Early Spider Ball

I'll get around to recording and uploading the east Elysia stuff sometime soon. Finally we get some real sequence breaks in this game :P I remember Screw Attack being required in the Pirate Homeworld seed, but aside from that I don't think there's anything else stopping you from skipping it except possibly the Valhalla. I'll keep playing through later.

Thread title:

Figured something this awesome deserves its own topic :P If this doesn't get some activity in this board nothing will. We've been thinking about early Spider for years.

So you might've seen me post about [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOBL-owj57s]SW13 in Landing Site A[/url] the other day. I've been having tons of fun with it today, and I've been able to enter East Elysia AND do everything required there without Screw Attack, in addition to making a long and tedious wallcrawl to pick up Spider Ball early - both of these can be done as soon as you have the Plasma Beam and have repaired the AU. I've got a video of early Spider below - clearing east Elysia without Screw Attack requires a tricky route involving a little wallcrawling and a couple fun jumps.

Early Spider Ball

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbC86UA6txA

I'll get around to recording and uploading the east Elysia stuff sometime soon. Finally we get some real sequence breaks in this game :P I remember Screw Attack being required in the Pirate Homeworld seed, but aside from that I don't think there's anything else stopping you from skipping it except possibly the Valhalla. I'll keep playing through later.

Prime Hunter:

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Prime Hunter

2010-03-13 10:43:44 am

Heh, too bad I have NO idea what was going on half the time, seeing as I've never tried to seriously navigate a SW before.

Still, this is great news indeed! I'm guessing you didn't get the Homeworld to appear on your map with this, right? Either way, I doubt skipping Screw Attack would ever happen because you need to go down there to trigger the Valhalla in the first place, don't you? (Unless that's what you meant.)

Unfortunately my brain got the better of me, because I immediately jumped to the conclusion that you could head to the Nova Beam as soon as you landed on the Homeworld, but you need to defeat Gandrayda first for the Voltage. (And you'd need the X-Ray to get to her and also to get out of the Nova area, right?) Still, it would be cool to be able to get to the Nova Beam and then head right to Ridley through the SW that skips the Demo Team segment. (Now I'm just rambling...)

Anyway, great to see something happening with this game after almost three years!

Paraxade:

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Paraxade: 2010-03-13 05:23:10 pm

2010-03-13 03:02:34 pm

I have no idea what'll happen with the valhalla, I'll find out when I play through later on. You can't get the nova beam immediately after landing on PH, but there are pretty much a ton of options in what order you can play Pirate Homeworld now. Instead of following the intended item path you can pick up X-ray, then go to research and grab hazard instead of killing Gandrayda, then go back to Pirate Command and have the option of either opening access to the PH seed or heading to Nova Beam (iirc someone said it was possible to hop over the gate in command courtyard) and then do Gandrayda after Ridley... it's some awesome stuff, just gotta get the whole game like that now. :P

EDIT: After killing Helios and having Pirate Homeworld unlocked, the Valhalla appears on the map. Starting to seem like that one room on the PH seed is gonna be the only reason we can't skip screw attack.

Paraxade:

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Paraxade: 2010-03-13 06:58:50 pm

2010-03-13 06:31:51 pm

...... never mind about all that, apparently you can't get Hazard before Gandrayda. Just WTF.

edit: wait, yes you can xD just gotta reload the room and you will be able to pick up Hazard like normal.

Jerry9:

registered on 2007-05-29 08:30:23 pm.

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Jerry9

2010-03-13 06:37:41 pm

not evil,just hungry

well, that's annoying. Nice job finding early spider though. I would have never thought to try those SW entrances

Prime Hunter:

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Prime Hunter: 2010-03-13 08:45:53 pm

2010-03-13 08:45:46 pm

Quote from Paraxade:

...... never mind about all that, apparently you can't get Hazard before Gandrayda. Just WTF.

edit: wait, yes you can xD just gotta reload the room and you will be able to pick up Hazard like normal.

So if you don't reset the room, the HS is there but you can't grab it, and the scanner doesn't set off the Pirates and blow open the window? Isn't that the only way out of there once you're at the HS? (Actually yeah. that isn't the HS at all, but a missile? Wha...?)

I was just thinking - Unless it's required to use the Hyper Grapple, are the Grapple Voltage and Gandrayda even necessary for anything if you use SWs? She doesn't trigger anything on her own, right?

Paraxade:

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Paraxade

2010-03-13 08:53:53 pm

I have no idea what's up with the Hazard Shield but reloading the room fixes it and lets you get everything like normal. :/

Anyway, I just picked up Hyper Grapple without Grapple Voltage and ended up permanently stuck in the room. Apparently you can't use Hyper Grapple without having Grapple Voltage first. Oh well... back to trying to skip SA I guess.

Prime Hunter:

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Prime Hunter

2010-03-13 09:11:54 pm

The Hazard Shield's not in it's normal place when you first enter that room, right? I'm guessing the quick cutscene that happens the first time you're in that room is the culprit, since the game never expects you to be able to go in and grab the Shield that first time around. Not sure why they wouldn't have just left things like normal though, but weird things have been known to happen with these games once we fool around with the sequence.

Too bad about Hyper Grapple. That one definitely feels like a "block SBing" move seeing as we've gotten some things to work like that before without having the prerequisite. (Haven't we?)

MR.X:

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MR.X

2010-03-14 05:05:47 am

This is THE coolest sequence break i´ve ever seen in any game, this looks much cooler than anything that ever has been found in MP1 or MP2!

Is it possible to skip these 2 Energy Cells in Valhalla without Screw Attack? If it isn´t, then Screw Attack might only be skippable just for fun, if that one room on PH seed can be bypassed at all...

Just a question, i remember that some years ago Early Spider was talked about, but why exactly has it been impossible? Hasn´t there already been an SW that might have done the job?

Prime Hunter:

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Prime Hunter

2010-03-14 08:10:57 am

Don't think they were in the right places, or else nobody had seriously attempted it before now. (Either that, or you'd have to make a grand trek across Skytown by using a different one, most likely.)

Honestly? I'm not the one to ask because I have no knowledge of these things.

SkippyJr:

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SkippyJr

2010-03-14 08:48:22 am

Many congrats on the 2 new SWs and this (very nasty looking) wallcrawl to early spider! Quite odd that noone had studied the effects of early spider with moonjump. Hopefully the game is still completable (I recall some plot point not happening if you strung on an AU message for too long).

Didn't someone figure out how to glitch through the sheild in Command Courtyard with the Hazard Sheild? Or was that from the other side of the sheild or needed SA from atop the upper doorframe?

Does using the infinite speed bug to trigger the spinning gate cutscene (that you now won't die from) lead to any place earlier now that Hazard can be obtained earlier?

Is SA absolutely required for the Skyway Access SW?

I am anxious to hear more about your adventures! This discovery is in good hands!

Paraxade:

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Paraxade: 2010-03-14 03:13:22 pm

Paraxade: 2010-03-14 03:03:38 pm

2010-03-14 02:47:36 pm

I did check out early spider with moon jump a while ago actually, honestly it really doesn't affect anything at all - you'll get Admiral Dane's transmission shortly after you pick up Spider, then another one once you're on Pirate Homeworld, but that's all. The CC shield CAN be jumped over from an invisible ledge in the room, but requires screw attack. I did come across one bizarre thing - after picking up the X-ray visor, I never got the Federation Trooper NZG41 transmission, then when I got to Gandrayda the game locked up. Reloaded the file and I got the transmission so I dunno what happened there.

Anyway - the transit station leads to Metroid Creche, which is in the same section as Hazard/Gandrayda so it won't get you anywhere new. I'm pretty sure SA is required for Skyway Access's SW. MR. X: there has never been a secret world in west elysia that could be used for early spider - there were ones in Powerworks and Zipline Station Charlie, which just so happened to be exactly the two rooms that we would be trying to get to and thus can't get to the SWs without spider ball <_<

I think I have a working method for clearing the gap in the PH seed without screw... just requires absolute perfection to actually get all the way over to the door (I've gotten very close). I'll keep messing with it. If I get this, then Screw Attack is skippable.

EDIT: The energy cell skip is possible without SA, just pulled it off. It's a lot harder but still possible.

I did check out early spider with moon jump a while ago actually, honestly it really doesn't affect anything at all - you'll get Admiral Dane's transmission shortly after you pick up Spider, then another one once you're on Pirate Homeworld, but that's all. The CC shield CAN be jumped over from an invisible ledge in the room, but requires screw attack. I did come across one bizarre thing - after picking up the X-ray visor, I never got the Federation Trooper NZG41 transmission, then when I got to Gandrayda the game locked up. Reloaded the file and I got the transmission so I dunno what happened there.

Anyway - the transit station leads to Metroid Creche, which is in the same section as Hazard/Gandrayda so it won't get you anywhere new. I'm pretty sure SA is required for Skyway Access's SW. MR. X: there has never been a secret world in west elysia that could be used for early spider - there were ones in Powerworks and Zipline Station Charlie, which just so happened to be exactly the two rooms that we would be trying to get to and thus can't get to the SWs without spider ball <_<

I think I have a working method for clearing the gap in the PH seed without screw... just requires absolute perfection to actually get all the way over to the door (I've gotten very close). I'll keep messing with it. If I get this, then Screw Attack is skippable.

EDIT: The energy cell skip is possible without SA, just pulled it off. It's a lot harder but still possible.

Paraxade:

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Paraxade

2010-03-14 05:15:56 pm

SCREW ATTACK IS SKIPPABLE!!!! Will try a 21% run and get a bunch of videos up soon!!

Jerry9:

registered on 2007-05-29 08:30:23 pm.

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Jerry9

2010-03-14 06:11:02 pm

not evil,just hungry

:O
awesome find! never expected to see the percent drop until recently.

Paraxade:

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Paraxade

2010-03-14 07:15:01 pm

aaand the most awesome in-bounds trick in the game.

Prime Hunter:

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Prime Hunter: 2010-03-14 09:28:06 pm

2010-03-14 09:25:35 pm

Genius!

A scan dash with a "unique" type of boost. Most awesome trick indeed.

Edit: So this means no trip out to Bryyo Ice I take it? AND no backtracking to EITHER Bryyo or Elysia once you've destroyed their seeds? (Using the early Spider trick and then this.)

arkarian:

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arkarian

2010-03-14 11:17:27 pm

wanna go faster

let me blow your mind

really bad ass. great to see this game finally getting some action after so long. congrats on the finds.

kip:

registered on 2003-09-13 10:02:51 pm.

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kip

2010-03-15 04:07:46 am

Great job on all this. That seed method reminded me a lot of the skyway access SW.. the part where you have to boost into your own bomb. Man the walls in the seed areas are weird. Do you need boost ball aiming to be on for this?

And question. If someone were to find a way past the 2 hyper grapple blobs, would it be skipped? I know it's been tried already, but unless there's something I'm forgetting, hyper grapple would possibly mean no ridley, and maybe open the door for nova. But I'm probably forgetting another place where it's needed.

It's hard to think about what else can be skipped. A long time ago there was some brief talk about hyper missile, but if you need to destroy the elysia seed to get valhalla on the map, that's out (unless you can just beat helios and leave or something).

I guess it doesn't matter if there's nothing else, skipping screw attack and early spider is still great. The other SB I've always wanted to see is early ship missile, cuz I hate going back and forth between bryyo's areas. Never found a way across that gap though, and IIRC there's an ice door that you'd have to get past anyway.

Great job on all this. That seed method reminded me a lot of the skyway access SW.. the part where you have to boost into your own bomb. Man the walls in the seed areas are weird. Do you need boost ball aiming to be on for this?

And question. If someone were to find a way past the 2 hyper grapple blobs, would it be skipped? I know it's been tried already, but unless there's something I'm forgetting, hyper grapple would possibly mean no ridley, and maybe open the door for nova. But I'm probably forgetting another place where it's needed.

It's hard to think about what else can be skipped. A long time ago there was some brief talk about hyper missile, but if you need to destroy the elysia seed to get valhalla on the map, that's out (unless you can just beat helios and leave or something).

I guess it doesn't matter if there's nothing else, skipping screw attack and early spider is still great. The other SB I've always wanted to see is early ship missile, cuz I hate going back and forth between bryyo's areas. Never found a way across that gap though, and IIRC there's an ice door that you'd have to get past anyway.

Paraxade:

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Paraxade: 2010-03-15 06:23:20 am

2010-03-15 05:10:04 am

Up to Helios in a 21% hyper attempt :P

@Prime Hunter: nope, you never need to backtrack to any planets if you skip Screw Attack. The Early Spider wallcrawl is actually a requirement for the SA skip because otherwise you need it to get to the floating platforms in Zipline Station Charlie.

@kip: Yeah, you need boost aiming to do it. Also, Hyper Grapple would be skippable if you could get past the two blobs, yeah, though it's already possible to open Phaaze without it but you can't get to the other side of the blob in Defense Station (or whatever it's called) and it doesn't seem likely that a way to get back through will be found. Also, you've always wanted to see early ship missiles? Strange to hear that because that break's been around for a long time, lol. I did that way back shortly after the Hillside Vista SW was found. It's actually pretty neat because the ship missiles trigger a state change in Corrupted Pool so you can pass through without triggering the corruption sequence and finish the game without ever being able to get corrupted. I don't really think it's worth doing though because it doesn't skip anything, is just a tiny bit out of sequence, and the wallcrawl is a major pain in the ass - IIRC Gateway takes 15 minutes even if you do it as fast as possible. Requires a ton of those tiny hops you get on sticky surfaces to be able to reach the door to Crash Site.

anyway - got a few more vids up. Here's my East Elysia route...

To start get into the Landing Site A secret world and do a quick wallcrawl up to the top of Security Station. Pretty easy stuff.

In Concourse you'll need to do early Seekers; take out all the pirates, then jump up to the second floor and do a boost SSJ off the wall so you can jump up to the alcove with the missile expansion. For low% be very careful to make sure you don't accidentally pick up the missile expansion. Doing early Seekers bypasses the requirement for Screw Attack in either Gearworks or Chozo Observatory as well as the bottom half of Zipline Station Delta.

Take the zipline across ZSD and then drop to the bottom and go pick up Seekers, then take the zipline back over and drop to the bottom again. Head straight through the next few rooms until you get to Piston Hall then enter the secret world here and wallcrawl over to SkyTown Federation Landing Site - SA is normally required in both Maintenance Shaft TA and Landing Access so this skips both of those.

After getting Ship Grapple get in the ship and fly back to Landing Site A, then do the wallcrawl up to the top of Security Station again. This time take the normal route, up to Chozo Observatory, then solve the puzzle and go up to the top through Botanica and kill the Berserker, get the first bomb component, take the elevator up in Concourse, get the second bomb component (the seeker targets by the missile expansion can be hit from the bottom floor so you don't need to risk pulling off the trick again for low%), then you're free to go.

Getting up a couple more videos tomorrow; the one room on the way to Gandrayda whose name escapes me that normally requires SA to wall jump, and the energy cells skip.

Up to Helios in a 21% hyper attempt :P

@Prime Hunter: nope, you never need to backtrack to any planets if you skip Screw Attack. The Early Spider wallcrawl is actually a requirement for the SA skip because otherwise you need it to get to the floating platforms in Zipline Station Charlie.

@kip: Yeah, you need boost aiming to do it. Also, Hyper Grapple would be skippable if you could get past the two blobs, yeah, though it's already possible to open Phaaze without it but you can't get to the other side of the blob in Defense Station (or whatever it's called) and it doesn't seem likely that a way to get back through will be found. Also, you've always wanted to see early ship missiles? Strange to hear that because that break's been around for a long time, lol. I did that way back shortly after the Hillside Vista SW was found. It's actually pretty neat because the ship missiles trigger a state change in Corrupted Pool so you can pass through without triggering the corruption sequence and finish the game without ever being able to get corrupted. I don't really think it's worth doing though because it doesn't skip anything, is just a tiny bit out of sequence, and the wallcrawl is a major pain in the ass - IIRC Gateway takes 15 minutes even if you do it as fast as possible. Requires a ton of those tiny hops you get on sticky surfaces to be able to reach the door to Crash Site.

anyway - got a few more vids up. Here's my East Elysia route...

To start get into the Landing Site A secret world and do a quick wallcrawl up to the top of Security Station. Pretty easy stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILuC4_RFJlY

In Concourse you'll need to do early Seekers; take out all the pirates, then jump up to the second floor and do a boost SSJ off the wall so you can jump up to the alcove with the missile expansion. For low% be very careful to make sure you don't accidentally pick up the missile expansion. Doing early Seekers bypasses the requirement for Screw Attack in either Gearworks or Chozo Observatory as well as the bottom half of Zipline Station Delta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuS64Sl1d6I

Take the zipline across ZSD and then drop to the bottom and go pick up Seekers, then take the zipline back over and drop to the bottom again. Head straight through the next few rooms until you get to Piston Hall then enter the secret world here and wallcrawl over to SkyTown Federation Landing Site - SA is normally required in both Maintenance Shaft TA and Landing Access so this skips both of those.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCqdozyzxOI

After getting Ship Grapple get in the ship and fly back to Landing Site A, then do the wallcrawl up to the top of Security Station again. This time take the normal route, up to Chozo Observatory, then solve the puzzle and go up to the top through Botanica and kill the Berserker, get the first bomb component, take the elevator up in Concourse, get the second bomb component (the seeker targets by the missile expansion can be hit from the bottom floor so you don't need to risk pulling off the trick again for low%), then you're free to go.

Getting up a couple more videos tomorrow; the one room on the way to Gandrayda whose name escapes me that normally requires SA to wall jump, and the energy cells skip.

UchihaSasuke:

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UchihaSasuke

2010-03-15 10:48:24 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

whoaaaaaaaa.....!
great finds! i never expected a SB so big to be possible. also, i never thought the SA would be skippable here given the experience with mp2 and how a lot of stuff was skipped there but no way for SA skip exists there yet.
Paraxade is reviving mp3 on his own. first his completed speedrun and now many discoveries for a new low% route. this is comparable to DJGrenola with mp2 4 years ago.
hopefully there's some extra tricks caused by these new finds.
now i want to replay the game and try this stuff.

Paraxade:

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Paraxade

2010-03-16 12:32:51 am

Glad to see this is getting someone interested in playing it again then, since no one else seems to be :P Anyway:

Airshaft

Energy Cells skip

anyway, everything I've posted should be everything anyone needs to be able to get 21%... wonder if anyone other than me is going to bother doing it :P

MR.X:

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MR.X

2010-03-16 03:47:55 am

Congratulations Paraxade. These tricks are so feakin`cool! You´re a hero. Considering that still almost nobody cares, i don´t think there will ever be activity here, because there couldn´t possibly be better sequence breaks than Early Spider and No Screw Attack. I thought about doing normal 21% first, but i suck so hard at this game, i probably wouldn´t even be able to enter Secret World 13. >_>
I suck so horribly, i haven´t EVER managed to do a 2bsj in this game.

Prime Hunter:

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Prime Hunter

2010-03-16 07:11:43 am

Quote from Paraxade:

Glad to see this is getting someone interested in playing it again then, since no one else seems to be :P Anyway:

anyway, everything I've posted should be everything anyone needs to be able to get 21%... wonder if anyone other than me is going to bother doing it :P

Heh, sorry, but I've been busy with other games and I've got HeartGold coming tomorrow, so it'll be a while before I get back to Corruption or Metroid in general. Even then, I'll probably never be able to do any of this because I'm terrible with secret worlds, or else have never given them serious thought as far as trying to navigate them myself.

Still doesn't take away how awesome any of this is though. Wink

But UchihaSasuke is right, you're doing everything in your power to try and revive Corruption on your own. And to be honest, you're probably one of the few who could pull it off with how much you know about the inner workings of this game compared to most of us.

Paltheos:

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Paltheos

2010-03-16 05:28:41 pm

These new sequence breaks inspired me to pick up the game again and go for new low%. I've reached Landing Site A and tried entering SW13 but haven't gotten in yet. I can't get the camera jammed behind that nub. I tried following your motion and positions accurately but failed.

This may be the most trouble I've ever had of it, although I am admiteddly poor at fixing the camera for any bsjs except the ones against walls. Am I just bad at this (was it not as tough for you, Paraxade?)? Are there any tips you can offer?

Paraxade:

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Paraxade

2010-03-16 05:55:23 pm

not really sure what sort of advice i can give, just make sure you're in a spot where the camera will be right up against it and try to get it so it's taking up most of the screen to ensure it'll stay stuck. I'll also mention you need to be pretty decent at aether jumping to get anywhere at all in SWs in corruption too, especially right after getting into SW13 as you'll hit the terminal fall trigger if you accidentally fall any at all.