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MetroidTranslator:
registered on 2006-06-25 11:55:02 pm.
 
Well, I figured since this is my first post, I might as well see if I could contribute something.

Now, I was looking at the site and it states that one obtains early powerbombs in norfair with a well placed wall jump. Well yes, that does work, but what about getting them earlier? I did a search on here, and checked early powerbombs, but no real luck came upon me.  I decided to try getting them where you are supposed to, in brinstar with just super missles. No other items.

As soon as one enters the red area of brinstar, instead of going down, go up to the area with the four rippers. Blast each one down with a super missle(as it makes this much easier.)Then, shoot the blocks at the top with a blast. Fall back down and then wall jump up to the top and up into the top most area of the room before the blocks reappear. Then, go get the power bombs as usual.

This allows you to get the powerbombs before even heading to norfair. Of course, where you go from there is up to you. But I thought it was a bit incomplete for only one method to be posted.
What is interesting about this method is that it gives you almost immediate access to several more power bomb expansions, such as the one behind morph ball, as well as the one near the top exit to crateria from the powerbomb area of brinstar. Additionally, this gives you access to more missle expansions earlier. Hooray.
Thread title: 
Chanoire:
registered on 2004-09-13 05:00:10 pm.
 
Gender: female
Location: Somewhere else.
That's actually what I thought I was supposed to do the first time I played the game, because I didn't see the shootable blocks lower down in the red shaft. :o  It's done in the recent tool-assisted run, though of course for that it's not necessary to get rid of the rippers.  Not really practical for actual speedruns because crossing to the wrecked ship without speedboost would be slow and Phantoon would take longer without the other beams.
MetroidTranslator:
registered on 2006-06-25 11:55:02 pm.
 
I agree, it isn't practical in a speed run persay, but for casual sequence breaking fun, it is pretty nice to have the powerbombs so early.

I always found those yellow doors to be so annoyingly pesky. :P
Prime Hunter:
registered on 2004-08-09 06:04:32 pm.
 
Gender: male
Location: USA
Quote from Chanoire:
Not really practical for actual speedruns because crossing to the wrecked ship without speedboost would be slow...

How can you get across that room that uses the grapple beam (The one with the missile on that column in the center) without either the grapple or speedbooster? Cause I can get across the next room (The large, outside one right before the Wrecked Ship) just using some accurately timed normal jumps.
MetroidTranslator:
registered on 2006-06-25 11:55:02 pm.
 
Hmm. Indeed a problem, especially without even the hi-jump boots.
MASTER-88:
registered on 2006-02-10 02:48:30 pm.
 
Gender: male
Location: Finland
Speedrunner
I not see any trouble get very early power bombs before ice beam. Only hard part is long vertical corridor, but kill every single rippers and if you are enought skillful and you can do single wall jump i think this not too hard.

But i think Phantoom is possible beat before kraid. I think it is very hard trick, because you need make hard hoprizontal bomb jump before boss and you have very weak weapons (only power beam and charge) +couple super missiles. I think it is possible but you need much skill.

Is it possible get gravity suit before varia suit? I not sure but i think it is possible.
DeathNoble:
registered on 2005-09-02 06:36:14 pm.
 
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
It's completely possible to skip Kraid altogether, right up until you need to kill him to enter Tourain.  First, you go all the way to the elevator to Norfair, run through Norfair suitless and get everything you need (Grapple Beam, Wave Beam, Ice Beam, Speed Booster, High Jump Boots) and then exit Norfair.  Varia-less Norfair isn't even that hard until you're going lower Norfair.  Then you can easily traverse Maridia suitless and get to Draygon.  If you're careful.

Saturn and I are working on a reverse boss order run.  Of course, it's cyborged, and mine is now room-by-room because my skills at any Metroid game are just barely above average.  Saturn's is the impressive one, but mine will probably be finished quicker, as I'm going room-by-room to leave insane amounts of room for error.
BlueGlass:
registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.
 
Gender: male
Quote from Prime Hunter:

How can you get across that room that uses the grapple beam (The one with the missile on that column in the center) without either the grapple or speedbooster? Cause I can get across the next room (The large, outside one right before the Wrecked Ship) just using some accurately timed normal jumps.


either HBJ all the way across the room, Diagonal Bomb Jump from the missile pillar, or do that crazy frame-perfect walljump Kejardon invented.
moozooh:
registered on 2006-01-11 12:51:46 pm.
 
Gender: male
Location: Moscow
Quote from BlueGlass:
or do that crazy frame-perfect walljump Kejardon invented

It's not that hard, let alone frame perfect, if you do it from a stop (that is, if you will stop standing on the edge of the missile pillar instead of flying all he way past it): walljump doesn't preserve Samus's velocity no matter what speed she is travelling at, so you will have the same horizontal and vertical boosts from that walljump in either case. To do it, just stop a couple of pixels earlier to land on the pillar after grabbing the missile pack, then do a small spinjump adjusting Samus's position so that she won't land on the pillar after falling, and then do a walljump immediately as her vertical position allows for it. If executed right, this technique is somewhere about 1-2 seconds slower than the continuous jump Saturn shows here I believe, but to my taste, it's still simplier (and maybe a bit faster) than doing a diagonal bombjump across the shaft. For instance, I can't do diagonal bombjump, but I still can do this.
Prime Hunter:
registered on 2004-08-09 06:04:32 pm.
 
Gender: male
Location: USA
Quote from BlueGlass:
either HBJ all the way across the room, Diagonal Bomb Jump from the missile pillar, or do that crazy frame-perfect walljump Kejardon invented.

Oh great: Advanced Bomb Jumping...  :(  The one thing I haven't gotten the hang of in Super yet.

Anyway, if I could get across that room, the rest I can already do without the speedbooster or high jump boots. (Well, almost make it there without the boots because that last jump has the ripper there and I always hit him unless I jump over him with the boots. But, the green ones can be taken out with a Super Missile too, right?)

With the proper amount of missiles, we should be able to take out Phantoon. It's gonna be hard since the only beam we have is the power beam and we can charge it. (Man, no Varia, extra beams, and even less energy than I'm used to against him: Won't that be a blast? Rolling Eyes)

I can see it now, too: I finally get across there and beat Phantoon, only to die in that long grapple room with the spiked floor before the gravity suit because I don't have enough energy to get across... Evil or Very Mad (Looks like I'm going to use that save station in the Wrecked Ship if I somehow manage to pull this off.)

Edit: Either way, it's something new to shoot for. Wink

Edit 2: Just remembered that I still need to do the tricks to get into the power bomb room area first if I want ANY chance of attempting early Phantoon.

Edit 3: Well, that was esay enough to get there, now I just need to cross the room. (Actually, the walljumping to get to the power bomb area was easier than I thought it would be for me.)
nate:
is in the group Administrator.
is in the group deutschsprachiger Moderator.
registered on 2003-09-15 06:16:34 pm.
 
Gender: male
Location: lubbock, tx, usa
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if people think it's post worthy i can post it as long as i have a vid and description.
Kejardon:
registered on 2004-12-07 07:21:36 pm.
 
Gender: male
Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder
I didn't invent that particular jump, although I did notice that walljumping does preserve Samus's speed if you manage to do it without turning around before that jump was discovered. I just never thought of a practical use for it.
And I think the frame-perfect walljump is far easier than the horizontal bomb jump. :P
moozooh:
registered on 2006-01-11 12:51:46 pm.
 
Gender: male
Location: Moscow
Ah, it really does preserve speed I need to reach the other ledge, so this is not the case when I could use the "lazy" walljump.
Nevermind then. =_=
MetroidTranslator:
registered on 2006-06-25 11:55:02 pm.
 
Well, Seeing as how I have very little idea how to record my runs, as well as my skill is definately not the great, it would be nice to see someone else record it. I think it's definately an interesting way to sequence break, and early phantoon sounds like a very nice challenge :)

And yes Prime Hunter, I do enjoy how easy this initial trick is, it's the sequence break from there that adds the fun challenge.
Prime Hunter:
registered on 2004-08-09 06:04:32 pm.
 
Gender: male
Location: USA
I can get to that grapple room, but I was having difficulty getting across it so I gave up for now. I did manage to touch the ledge after doing some bomb jumping and unmorphing when I got close to it, but not close enough to land on it unfortunately. (In the process I think I figured out how to infinite bomb jump, since later I was able to get to those two areas above the starting area.)

The walljumping to the powerbomb area is simple enough once you get the timing down. Actually, I only destroyed the ripper closest to the top and could still make it, so wasting three super missiles on the others seems pointless. Although, there are plenty of opportunities to collect them again before heading off to the Wrecked Ship, so whatever works for each of us I guess.
Saturn:
registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.
 
Quote from Kejardon:
I didn't invent that particular jump, although I did notice that walljumping does preserve Samus's speed if you manage to do it without turning around before that jump was discovered.

I just want to note that this walljump only keeps the horizontal speed if you don't release the jump button after the walljump until the landing, or, if you need to release it you have to press any aim button so that Samus stops spinjumping before doing so to keep the horizontal speed.

Nate:
If you don't mind that it was done with slowdowns, feel free to use (or reencode) my vid of this walljump trick as long as no one does a successful one in realtime.
Chanoire:
registered on 2004-09-13 05:00:10 pm.
 
Gender: female
Location: Somewhere else.
Quote from MetroidTranslator:
I agree, it isn't practical in a speed run persay, but for casual sequence breaking fun, it is pretty nice to have the powerbombs so early.

To clarify, my point was that the section is mainly devoted to speed tricks rather than nonspeedy sequence breaking, so omission of a trick does not mean it's unknown.  Scarlet did it in her NBMB run, so many people have seen it.

P.S.  It's "per se".  >_<
Red Scarlet:
registered on 2004-01-20 01:26:46 pm.
 
Gender: female
Location: My house
I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)
Cool find, I remember doing this in 1994 though.  I always thought it wasn't put up because most people that are knowledgeable about the game knew about it for a long time, and that it was slower in regular runs to do.  Ie not a speed trick.  But it would be a sequence break.
Prime Hunter:
registered on 2004-08-09 06:04:32 pm.
 
Gender: male
Location: USA
Yeah, I had heard about it before, but I first tried it out the other day after reading this.
chipperMDW:
registered on 2006-06-14 08:28:34 pm.
 
Quote from Red Scarlet:
Cool find, I remember doing this in 1994 though.  I always thought it wasn't put up because most people that are knowledgeable about the game knew about it for a long time, and that it was slower in regular runs to do.  Ie not a speed trick.  But it would be a sequence break.


It would be a part of the "best" any% route that was discussed in this thread. I think the fact that it's part of a route being considered for a speed run makes it a speed trick.

There's no video of this for the same reason no one makes a video of getting the Spazer before the Hi-Jump Boots: it's a fairly obvious break to anyone who has mastered wall jumping and is looking for ways to abuse it.

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be listed, though. I don't consider Early Kraid to be anything groudbreaking, but it's there.