Damage Boost

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

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Tonski

2008-01-12 02:38:33 pm

I saw OmegaSneaky is doing a 100% no sbreak/glitch run, and it doesn't allow damage boosts.

Why is this considered a glitch if it must be in the game in purpose?

Thread title:

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

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Cpadolf

2008-01-12 02:44:13 pm

Hurr Durr

Dunno, I think it should be allowed, it's just a abuse not a glitch. And it does not alow any SB's.

Walljump is another of those things, it is a gamemechanic and therefore should be used in a no glitch/SB run as long as you don't do things like enter Kraid early.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

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072

2008-01-12 05:00:03 pm

coral to complement blue

THE RUN BUTTON IS A GLITCH

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

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Cpadolf

2008-01-12 06:04:32 pm

Hurr Durr

Essentially the whole friggin game is a glitch, Super Metroid should not be alowed in a no glitch 100% run IMO.

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2008-01-12 06:47:28 pm

That would actually be a interesting idea:

A noob-run, without ever using the dash button, wall- and bomb jumps. I think with this 3 limitations no sequence break would be possible anyway. My prediction for a any% - around a hour if optimally played. :)

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

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Cpadolf

2008-01-12 06:58:24 pm

Hurr Durr

If it just would not take so long time I could have done a low optimization TAS of it ust to see the time... but it's just stupid.

Also glitches are required for such a run, like freezing the mochtroid in maridia to get to botwoon and getting icebeam (which is an essential item without walljumping) is impossible all together now that I think of it... Unless you could get to it by going the backdoor way with pb's from crocmire.

Suddenly it is interesting to see i it is possible at all to finish such a run but I think it is impossible due to some jumps, second red brinstar room for example, I think you can not pass the first moat without dashing and OWUWWJing (hilarious name) would break a rule.

But maybe a simple no dash run is possible if allowing walljump... Banana hamock.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

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072

2008-01-12 07:01:36 pm

coral to complement blue

No dash = No speedbooster, + No fancy bomb jumps = No beating the game.

Sorry Saturn. :P

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

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Cpadolf

2008-01-12 08:03:36 pm

Hurr Durr

But speedbooster is only needed in one place in the whole game and that can be glitched past.

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

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Fano7

2008-01-12 09:06:27 pm

Every Bit Counts

the missile moat would be possible with grapple, but you can't get grapple without secuence breaing or speed booster. this is sounding impossible to do. :|

uNsane:

registered on 2007-09-26 07:38:10 pm.

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uNsane

2008-01-12 10:04:29 pm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Walljump, iirc, is only required in one room in the entire Metroid series, which is the room where the etecoons (or are those the dachoras?) show it to you.

You must be able to use the dash button in order to get the Ice Beam, which is required. And, as has already been mentioned, you must boost or ibj to get grapple. I don't think this would be possible.

Also, even with those limitations, a few SBs could still be done: skipping Spore Spawn, Zebetite glitch (if you could call it a SB), and no grapple springball.

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

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Fano7

2008-01-12 10:44:37 pm

Every Bit Counts

how would you skip Spore Spawn? no run button = no mockball or arm pumping under the gates.

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2008-01-13 05:12:46 am

Hmm, the Ice Beam would indeed be impossible to get without dash button. Glitching through the pre Botwoon room is of course required to, and so should the Zebetite glitch be allowed as well. Passing through the 2nd Red Brinstar room is possible without dash, you just stand on the last block that is lowered a bit, and with a high spin jump it's enough to get over the water gap.

If the Ice Beam would be reachable, this run should be possible. So maybe using a mockball to get it should be a exception.

And yes, skipping Spore Spawn isn't possible without dash.

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

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Tonski

2008-01-13 05:28:40 am

Quote from uNsane:

Walljump, iirc, is only required in one room in the entire Metroid series, which is the room where the etecoons (or are those the dachoras?) show it to you.

You must be able to use the dash button in order to get the Ice Beam, which is required. And, as has already been mentioned, you must boost or ibj to get grapple. I don't think this would be possible.

First, why can't you IBJ up in that Etecoon room? The walljump isn't actually required then.

Second, why couldn't you IBJ to the Grapple beam?

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

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Cpadolf

2008-01-13 05:48:32 am

Hurr Durr

The no dash run (with walljump and ibj) is halted at pre-botwoon room (if not earlier) icebeam is unobtainable. I though it would have been possible to get it by going the way to the upper left of crocmires lair but forgot about the speedboosterblock wall.

ICheatAtGolf:

registered on 2007-01-04 02:21:29 pm.

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ICheatAtGolf

2008-01-13 08:08:26 pm

Is it possible to draw out the little crawlie in the ice beam hall, and use him to damage boost through the second gate?

This would require extreme optimization of course and would only be doable in TAS. But i'm just throwing it out there. Maybe the same could be applied to early supers with no dash.

Sneaky Paradox:

registered on 2007-02-05 10:34:22 pm.

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Sneaky Paradox

2008-01-13 09:39:18 pm

Ooh, I see someone is a fan :)

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

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Cpadolf

2008-01-14 03:46:21 am

Hurr Durr

First of all I think it is only possible to get the crawler out if you are at the other side of the room, second of all the speed of a damageboost is = to running with armpumping or smaler and even with running + armpumping you have to make a jump at the end to make it through the gate by abusing samus hitbox. So it's still impossible.

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

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Tonski

2008-01-14 06:33:52 am

Quote from Saturn:

And yes, skipping Spore Spawn isn't possible without dash.

On PAL it is. Can't you just roll under the gates if you're lucky?

Kejardon:

registered on 2004-12-07 07:21:36 pm.

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Kejardon

2008-01-14 11:31:29 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Quote from Tonski:

Quote from Saturn:

And yes, skipping Spore Spawn isn't possible without dash.

On PAL it is. Can't you just roll under the gates if you're lucky?

Yeah. The collision detection for ground is a bit complex, but it works out so under *very* specific conditions Samus can roll over the whole thing without falling. This also includes the frame of the game though, so even from the exact right position you only have a 50% chance of success. Oh, and slow-down from too much going on will also affect the collision detection, though I don't think there's enough to cause that.
On NTSC though, you can only pass 4 tiles or so because Samus doesn't move as fast. (I refuse to say the tiles break slower; in this case, the value of Samus's speed is VERY significant).

FirePhoenix:

registered on 2007-11-01 07:21:23 pm.

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FirePhoenix

2008-01-14 02:07:27 pm

Wait, couldn't one do a stutter charge in the room to the right of the pre-Crocomire room and shinespark through the left wall? You'd then be going to Ice Beam backwards and as long as you get the Power Bombs from after Crocomire or by wall-jumping up the red brinstar shaft, you should be able to make it, unless I'm forgetting something else in the way.

Lance Uppercut:

registered on 2006-12-30 05:56:19 pm.

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Lance Uppercut

2008-01-14 02:44:24 pm

Nice idea, only that they were talking about playing the game without the dash button. You really have no chance to load a shinespark without it. How about reading the whole topic?
Also, it is much easier to load a spark in the crocomire room and then enter the room and shinespark towards ice beam.

What else... I think it is stupid to think some artificial limitations for playing, it does not make the game any more interesting to play or watch, and it is not an interesting concept. I just hope nobody starts a new topic for "being in morphball form" run or any similar.

FirePhoenix:

registered on 2007-11-01 07:21:23 pm.

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FirePhoenix

2008-01-14 03:04:11 pm

Oh, silly me, I forgot that that was the whole reason for trying to figure out how to get to Ice Beam. :|

And I did read the whole topic. I just forgot when posting.

If only there were some way to damage boost into a mockball. You could take the boost in the elevator shaft from a fire guy and mockball under the gates. Unfortunately, you'd lose the momentum by having to change direction so that's impossible.

As for why they want artificial limitations, I guess when you've beaten the game in every way possible and TASed it like mad, you have to think up your own challenges. :)

P.JMan:

registered on 2005-11-30 10:52:21 am.

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P.JMan

2008-01-14 04:11:51 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

What, without dash or glitches...

EDIT: wow, du-simuposted

Spoo:

registered on 2006-06-03 12:06:23 am.

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Spoo

2008-01-14 05:18:37 pm

Quote from Lance Uppercut:

What else... I think it is stupid to think some artificial limitations for playing, it does not make the game any more interesting to play or watch, and it is not an interesting concept. I just hope nobody starts a new topic for "being in morphball form" run or any similar.

I think it's interesting. RBO, anyone?

Kejardon:

registered on 2004-12-07 07:21:36 pm.

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Kejardon

2008-01-14 06:26:37 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

On the topic of good and bad limitations, I think that the only truly bad limitations are the limitations on the game engine. A fun game involves as much of the game engine as feasible.
Other limitations may be 'bad' or 'good' subjectively, I think. For an expert, a 15% glitchless of Super Metroid would be a good limitation, but for an average player, it would probably be a bad limitation. Too much frustration with stuff like Ridley or dodging Mother Brain. A NBMB run would be bad for anyone that doesn't want to waste time because of the x-ray scope and secret worlds involved.