I want to know her mother's name, what city she was in, and the court that "handled" the case. Seriously. That bitch deserves every ounce of heartache that came with her daughter's passing, and then some.
I can see how a topic such as this may lead to some very interesting discussions.
Baby Sheegoth - Very dramatic example/situation you described in your original post. And not to play the devil's advocate, but, well, to make any real judgement on what exactly went wrong there between that mother and her daughter... way more info needed. But, still, the mother needs help. And a lot of it.
Generally speaking - I'm in favour of looking at nature for guidance in such matters. People tend to forget too easily that life is far older than human civilization and life has always managed to do just fine for itself. In most primate species you will find that slapping ones child is actually fairly commonplace. Now, I'm fully aware that man has the intelligence to seek different ways, but, having grown up, raised by parents that, like me, believe in the occassional corrective spank... I did not suffer from it and, actually, I'm better for it.
I was a very difficult child. Extremely difficult even. And, well, there literally were moments where talking with me simply did not work. Nor did taking away my toys, privileges or anything else. I simply refused to listen or adhere to reason. At those moments, I needed a wakeup call. And, I can guarantee you, that spank... really brought me back to reality.
Not to say I do not understand people that simply refuse to go to that length, but, honestly - you do not want to negotiate with your children. They are the children, you are the parent. You are in control and should always remain in control.
Which the mother in Baby's original post... most definitely was NOT, I might add.
I don't know, my parents found that taking things away from proved more effective than spanking in most cases. I was also pretty difficult as a child, but I never broke anything on purpose, nor did I ever try hitting my parents. But I agree, spanking does not classify as beating, or even slight child abuse for that matter.
I very seldom got spanked when I was little. I can only remember getting spanked very vaguely. My mother did however believe in taking away things I enjoyed on a whim :[. Not finishing my vegetables? No playing with friends all day tomorrow. I didn't finish cleaning my room? No playing with toys for the rest of the night. If I didn't do what she wanted me to do even after getting my stuff taken away, I got a time out. It was only then after the time out, that if I refused to sit down or anything like that I got a spanking.
I'd say I was a pretty good child though, so it never really did go past getting my stuff taken away. However now that I'm old she takes away my computer rights/privelages for every stupid little thing. Oops didn't finish the dishes by 4pm? No computer for three hours. Forgot that Sunday is the night to take out the garbage? No computer. Teacher says I didn't do my homework the previous night? No computer. It was actually pretty common towards the end of the school year that she would take away my computer twice in one day. It would go something like "OH EM GEE YOU GOT A D ON YOUR HOMEWORK NO COMPUTER!", "But mom, you already took away the computer cause I didn't do the dishes...", "Ok fine".
Now that I think about it I've only ever once gotten in trouble from my dad. Since he's the fun playful dad I always made sure to do everything right around him. The one time I did get in trouble from him was when I got sent home from Kindergarten after being sent to the principles office for accidentally hitting a kid with a rock after throwing it into the air (it was the size of two peas next to each other, the boy was a cry-baby). When I got home my dad was the only one home and all he did was give me a stern and loud (but not quite yelling) talk about how I should be careful and stuff like that.
I was spanked as a kid. But I was usually a well behaved kid... Probably because I knew I'd be whooped if I did something wrong.
There was one thing that happened when I was little that came back to my mind.
Back in the early 80's we lived in the country (the 'woods' actually) and we had a few farm animals. Goats and Chickens. We had pigs for a while but sold them. Anyway... I can't recall what was going on -or- why it was happening but I was outside with my Dad in the back yard. It seems like he was throwing something at the goats or trying to get them away from something (it's been a long time, so -no telling what was happening). So, like a good child -I've got my Dad's back, and I think I'm trying to help. I remember I had these (what must've been some) small 2x4 blocks and I'm throwing them at the goats. Yeah. I remember saying something to the affect of telling those goats to "get out of here". But, since my dad was in front of me - I hit him in the back of the head with one of the blocks I threw. He turned around (I can't recall if he said anything), came up to me and slapped me. I knew I was in trouble when I hit him with the block and I felt really bad about it.
That just makes me wonder what I would do if I had a kid and they (obviously) accidentally did that to me.
As a kid I had to live in a box and was forced by my parents to work in a coal mine for 14 hours a day to keep me out of trouble. If I was especially good I got to eat two boiled rocks for dinner, but most of the time I got one and was sent to bead by getting kicked in the teeth. On a good day.
We were spanked if we did something that was extra bad. Spanking is not abuse and all the fucking hippies that go around saying it is should be cursed with totally soulless out=of-control children.
I know this topic is months old, but I don't care. Fuck. I only just heard about this today, and I'm LIVID. I want to know her mother's name, what city she was in, and the court that "handled" the case. Seriously. That bitch deserves every ounce of heartache that came with her daughter's passing, and then some.
I was quite surprised to see this topic back at the top again. I'm glad I'm not the only person who is (still) absolutely mortified about this.