Amateur speedrunner looking for advice...

chardish:

registered on 2004-12-13 12:42:57 am.

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chardish

2007-09-27 12:03:08 am

Hey guys. I've been playing this game ever since I was 10 and got it for the SNES way back in the day, and it remains one of my favorite games of all time. I've probably beaten it close to 20 times, and it literally never gets boring, so lately I've been taking to speedrunning it.

I've watched all the videos on the site, and my best any% is 1:18. I understand that's a respectable time, but not very good. I was wondering how I could improve it, and I have a few questions...

1) Mockball. I have not been able to get this right (it works maybe about one out of every 10-15 times I try it.) Are there any tricks I can use to master this? Skipping Spore Spawn would be a real treat, as he takes a lot of time to kill...

2) Ridley fight. I can beat him regularly with 7 etanks, 6 most of the time, and 5 on some occasions. Are there any special tricks or finesse moves to fight him? It would be nice if I could go through the game without having to go out of the way to get a couple etanks...

Here's what I usually get:
1) The first obvious one
2) The door that opens up after Kraid
3) Room before hi-jump boots
4) After Crocomire
5) Head up through Brinstar, powerbomb door in big pink room
6) Room before Maridia in WS, grappling over the water/spikes

That plus the reserve tank in green Brinstar is usually enough to survive.

3) Crocomire. Is it advisable to skip him? There are only a few places where I really use the grapple: getting into the WS, the big room in Maridia with the floating balloons, and the Draygon quick kill. I need to learn how to do the WS shinespark reliably, I know, but getting through the big room in Maridia would be a real pain without it. Furthermore, having to kill Draygon the hard way would take about as long as the Croc fight, so I don't know if this would do a whole lot of good. And I don't know where a fast place would be to get powerbombs if I skipped Croc.

4) Powerbombs. Since they're nearly useless in combat except for boss fights, I really only use them for utility purposes (e.g. when using one would be quicker than setting bombs 3 times to bomb through a wall.) I pick up 1 pack after Croc, and another in LN right before Ridley. Virtually everything else requires going out of my way:

5) I can't believe I saved this for 5, but my route. After getting into green Brinstar (everything before that is more or less by-the-book), I go: Spore Spawn, charge, spazer, Kraid, hi-jump, wave, speed, Croc, powerbombs, grapple, ice, exit to Crateria via green Brinstar (to get another etank, rtank, pack of supers, etc.), Phantoon, gravity, down into Maridia via right side of WS, Botwoon, Draygon, plasma, down into LN via the powerbomb tunnel, only obvious route through LN, up to Crateria through red Brinstar, down into Tourian for the game.

Any obvious issues with this route? If I could go up through red instead of green brinstar the first time, that might save a bit of time (and I could pick up an extra powerbomb without much hassle), but then I miss out on an extra etank. I'm also considering going to Crateria via Maridia>red Brinstar instead of just red Brinstar - it might save some time on account of not having to freeze rippers and ascend that way.

6) Missiles/supers on pink doors/eye doors. It's tempting to use supers and shave off a couple seconds, but that leads to trouble if I ever run out of supers and need to get through a green door, as backtracking to refill a super cancels out the time I saved from using a super instead of 5 regulars. In front of eye doors it's the same story (except for Phantoon and Draygon, where no one uses supers.) Thoughts on this?

7) Saving. Obviously a perfect speedrun wouldn't involve any saving at all, but I can't help but save before Ridley due to the fact that he brings me down so low. I also usually save anytime I pass my ship (due to the complete ammo refill.) Advice?

So, those are my rantings...my goal is an any% under 1:00, and then I'm going to start working on getting a fast 100% time. Help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Thread title:

Hey guys. I've been playing this game ever since I was 10 and got it for the SNES way back in the day, and it remains one of my favorite games of all time. I've probably beaten it close to 20 times, and it literally never gets boring, so lately I've been taking to speedrunning it.

I've watched all the videos on the site, and my best any% is 1:18. I understand that's a respectable time, but not very good. I was wondering how I could improve it, and I have a few questions...

1) Mockball. I have not been able to get this right (it works maybe about one out of every 10-15 times I try it.) Are there any tricks I can use to master this? Skipping Spore Spawn would be a real treat, as he takes a lot of time to kill...

2) Ridley fight. I can beat him regularly with 7 etanks, 6 most of the time, and 5 on some occasions.  Are there any special tricks or finesse moves to fight him? It would be nice if I could go through the game without having to go out of the way to get a couple etanks...

Here's what I usually get:
1) The first obvious one
2) The door that opens up after Kraid
3) Room before hi-jump boots
4) After Crocomire
5) Head up through Brinstar, powerbomb door in big pink room
6) Room before Maridia in WS, grappling over the water/spikes

That plus the reserve tank in green Brinstar is usually enough to survive.

3) Crocomire. Is it advisable to skip him? There are only a few places where I really use the grapple: getting into the WS, the big room in Maridia with the floating balloons, and the Draygon quick kill. I need to learn how to do the WS shinespark reliably, I know, but getting through the big room in Maridia would be a real pain without it. Furthermore, having to kill Draygon the hard way would take about as long as the Croc fight, so I don't know if this would do a whole lot of good. And I don't know where a fast place would be to get powerbombs if I skipped Croc.

4) Powerbombs. Since they're nearly useless in combat except for boss fights, I really only use them for utility purposes (e.g. when using one would be quicker than setting bombs 3 times to bomb through a wall.) I pick up 1 pack after Croc, and another in LN right before Ridley. Virtually everything else requires going out of my way:

5) I can't believe I saved this for 5, but my route. After getting into green Brinstar (everything before that is more or less by-the-book), I go: Spore Spawn, charge, spazer, Kraid, hi-jump, wave, speed, Croc, powerbombs, grapple, ice, exit to Crateria via green Brinstar (to get another etank, rtank, pack of supers, etc.), Phantoon, gravity, down into Maridia via right side of WS, Botwoon, Draygon, plasma, down into LN via the powerbomb tunnel, only obvious route through LN, up to Crateria through red Brinstar, down into Tourian for the game.

Any obvious issues with this route? If I could go up through red instead of green brinstar the first time, that might save a bit of time (and I could pick up an extra powerbomb without much hassle), but then I miss out on an extra etank. I'm also considering going to Crateria via Maridia>red Brinstar instead of just red Brinstar - it might save some time on account of not having to freeze rippers and ascend that way.

6) Missiles/supers on pink doors/eye doors. It's tempting to use supers and shave off a couple seconds, but that leads to trouble if I ever run out of supers and need to get through a green door, as backtracking to refill a super cancels out the time I saved from using a super instead of 5 regulars. In front of eye doors it's the same story (except for Phantoon and Draygon, where no one uses supers.) Thoughts on this?

7) Saving. Obviously a perfect speedrun wouldn't involve any saving at all, but I can't help but save before Ridley due to the fact that he brings me down so low. I also usually save anytime I pass my ship (due to the complete ammo refill.) Advice?

So, those are my rantings...my goal is an any% under 1:00, and then I'm going to start working on getting a fast 100% time. Help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Max:

registered on 2007-04-03 10:03:57 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Australia

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Max

2007-09-27 12:56:48 am

Waaaaaaa i want insanity

Good to see a new runner.

Ok. here is what you should do.

#1. Skip Crocomire. {you don't need the Grappling beam or the e-tank after him}

#2. Don't Get the e-tank after wrecked ship. It wastes too much time.

#3. Don't go to maridia through the wrecked ship. It is faster backtracking and using a power bomb in the tube.

#4. Learn to kill draygon with supers and missles. (Way faster than the grapple kil anyway}

#5. Use supers on the eye doors. But try not to on the pink doors.

And also. Don't be scared to save. I still find it hard to get a good SS run.

Oh and also with your Mockball problem. When you jump, before you press down make sure you are holding the jump button.
Or you can just hold the jump button the whole way.

I hope I helped.

My advanced how to play video will be out soon.

EDIT: Lol beat Chanoire to it.

Chanoire:

registered on 2004-09-13 05:00:10 pm.

Gender: female

Location: Somewhere else.

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Chanoire

2007-09-27 01:27:18 am

I'm no speedrunner -- if anything, I'm an anti-speedrunner -- but since no one's answered yet (as of when I started typing, anyway) I'll toss in a comment or two.

1. Mockball. I've never managed it myself but I think the FAQ I learned about it from advised practicing using the speed booster so that you could see what you were doing more easily. There are a bunch of posts here about how it works; use search.

2. Ridley. For a dissection of his various attack patterns read Kejardon's 14%/15% walkthrough at GameFAQs. You could also consider getting the e-tank two rooms after the acid room in LN instead of one of the ones you usually get.

3. Crocomire/Grapple. Are you talking about the Maridia room just before the music changes, shortly after breaking the tube? You can get through that one pretty easily with a shinespark from the floor at an angle. The big room just before Draygon is what I'd be concerned about, but that's because I can't walljump at all.

5. Route. I think this is the only time I've seen someone say they go to Maridia via the right side of the Wrecked Ship instead of going to the glass tube via Brinstar. I suppose the e-tank in the WS is on the way if you're going that direction, but I rather wonder if going through Crateria and getting the e-tank near the first missiles would be faster, whether or not you have grapple.

I'm no speedrunner -- if anything, I'm an anti-speedrunner -- but since no one's answered yet (as of when I started typing, anyway) I'll toss in a comment or two.

1. Mockball.  I've never managed it myself but I think the FAQ I learned about it from advised practicing using the speed booster so that you could see what you were doing more easily.  There are a bunch of posts here about how it works; use search.

2. Ridley.  For a dissection of his various attack patterns read Kejardon's 14%/15% walkthrough at GameFAQs.  You could also consider getting the e-tank two rooms after the acid room in LN instead of one of the ones you usually get.

3. Crocomire/Grapple.  Are you talking about the Maridia room just before the music changes, shortly after breaking the tube?  You can get through that one pretty easily with a shinespark from the floor at an angle.  The big room just before Draygon is what I'd be concerned about, but that's because I can't walljump at all.

5. Route.  I think this is the only time I've seen someone say they go to Maridia via the right side of the Wrecked Ship instead of going to the glass tube via Brinstar.  I suppose the e-tank in the WS is on the way if you're going that direction, but I rather wonder if going through Crateria and getting the e-tank near the first missiles would be faster, whether or not you have grapple.

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male

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BlueGlass

2007-09-27 10:44:51 am

Nice to see another person speedrunning this game.

First of all, the most important thing you can di is to practice. Practice everything- walljumping, mockballing, fighting Ridley, short charging, and all the various tricks you plan on using.

Now, in response to your questions:

1. Mockballing. First of all, as Max said, make sure you're holgind jump when you press down both times, and learn how to roll your thumb to forward after the second press. Basically, just keep practicing until you get the hang of it, and after that it's really quite easy.

2. Ridley fight. Learn his attack patterns and practice avoiding them while hitting him at the same time. As Chanoire said, Kejardon's guide on gamefaqs has an extremely detailed and useful Ridley section that breaks down all his attacks.

3. Crocomire. Skip him. The Crocomire fight is long, and when you add on the time it takes to get to him, get from him to Grapple, then go all the way back to the rest of Norfair, it really isn't worth it.

4. PBs. You only need one pack of PBs, and it should be the ones in red Brinstar. As far as where to use them, basically whenever there's multiple bomb blocks in a row, when the game requires you to, at the start of the Botwoon fight, and during the Draygon fight to ckear away his gunk so you can easily pummel him with supers or regular missiles. Also, you can use a PB during the Phantoon fight to cut the fight down to two rounds, instead of the usual three (this will be put on the site in the next update). Finally, DO NOT start the Ridley fight with a PB.If you do, the PB will only hit once (for the damage f a single missile) as opposed to its usual two hits, and Ridley will be given extra invincibility time at the fight's start.

5. Route. There are multiple obvious problems with that route. First of all, you obviously want to learn mockball and skip spore spawn. Then as previously mentionedyou want to skip Croc. Then you should head to WS through Red Brinstar, as you can grab PBs and it's much faster. Then after WS, head back the way you came and enter Maridia through the tube. And from there it should be pretty obvious, except that for going to Tourian, you want to go brinstar -> Maridia -> Brinstar -> Crateria -> Tourian.

And as for non-main item collection, get that first etank, the missiles by charge, the etank after Kraid, the etank and missiles by hi-jump, the missiles by speedbooster and wave, the missiles in you way on the way to WS, the supers through the metal door after beating Phantoon, the supers through the hidden morphball tunnel in rocky Maridia, if you're having trouble with Ridley the etank after Botwoon, and that's abut it.

6. red/eye doors. Use supers on all of these except the following: the doors before you get Supers, the door leading to speedbooster, and that's about it, except maybe the door leading to the room before wave.

4. Saving. If you're going to save (which you really should, at least untli you get really really good at speedrunning SM), you should save at the following points:
1. After Ceres and before landing on Zebes (auto-save. The game auto-saves again upon landing).
2. Before WS, save in the save point in Red Brinstar.
3. Before Botwoon. This way you can start over if you mess up any of the extrmely difficult tricks coming up in MAridia, or if you have a bad Draygon fight.
4. Before Ridley. This'll let you have as good a Ridley fight as you need.
5. If you refill at your ship before heading to Tourian, you should also save, though I'd reccomend skipping this if possible, as the ship takes a good amount of time to refill your stuff.

Hope all this helps, and good luck!

Nice to see another person speedrunning this game.

First of all, the most important thing you can di is to practice.  Practice everything- walljumping, mockballing, fighting Ridley, short charging, and all the various tricks you plan on using.

Now, in response to your questions:

1. Mockballing.  First of all, as Max said, make sure you're holgind jump when you press down both times, and learn how to roll your thumb to forward after the second press.  Basically, just keep practicing until you get the hang of it, and after that it's really quite easy.

2. Ridley fight.  Learn his attack patterns and practice avoiding them while hitting him at the same time.  As Chanoire said, Kejardon's guide on gamefaqs has an extremely detailed and useful Ridley section that breaks down all his attacks.

3.  Crocomire.  Skip him.  The Crocomire fight is long, and when you add on the time it takes to get to him, get from him to Grapple, then go all the way back to the rest of Norfair, it really isn't worth it.

4.  PBs.  You only need one pack of PBs, and it should be the ones in red Brinstar.  As far as where to use them, basically whenever there's multiple bomb blocks in a row, when the game requires you to, at the start of the Botwoon fight, and during the Draygon fight to ckear away his gunk so you can easily pummel him with supers or regular missiles.  Also, you can use a PB during the Phantoon fight to cut the fight down to two rounds, instead of the usual three (this will be put on the site in the next update).  Finally, DO NOT start the Ridley fight with a PB.If you do, the PB will only hit once (for the damage f a single missile) as opposed to its usual two hits, and Ridley will be given extra invincibility time at the fight's start.

5. Route.  There are multiple obvious problems with that route.  First of all, you obviously want to learn mockball and skip spore spawn.  Then as previously mentionedyou want to skip Croc.  Then you should head to WS through Red Brinstar, as you can grab PBs and it's much faster.  Then after WS, head back the way you came and enter Maridia through the tube.  And from there it should be pretty obvious, except that for going to Tourian, you want to go brinstar -> Maridia -> Brinstar -> Crateria -> Tourian.

And as for non-main item collection, get that first etank, the missiles by charge, the etank after Kraid, the etank and missiles by hi-jump, the missiles by speedbooster and wave, the missiles in you way on the way to WS, the supers through the metal door after beating Phantoon, the supers through the hidden morphball tunnel in rocky Maridia, if you're having trouble with Ridley the etank after Botwoon, and that's abut it.

6. red/eye doors.  Use supers on all of these except the following: the  doors before you get Supers, the door leading to speedbooster, and that's about it, except maybe the door leading to the room before wave.

4. Saving.  If you're going to save (which you really should, at least untli you get really really good at speedrunning SM), you should save at the following points:
1.  After Ceres and before landing on Zebes (auto-save.  The game auto-saves again upon landing).
2.  Before WS, save in the save point in Red Brinstar.
3.  Before Botwoon.  This way you can start over if you mess up any of the extrmely difficult tricks coming up in MAridia, or if you have a bad Draygon fight.
4.  Before Ridley.  This'll let you have as good a Ridley fight as you need.
5.  If you refill at your ship before heading to Tourian, you should also save, though I'd reccomend skipping this if possible, as the ship takes a good amount of time to refill your stuff.

Hope all this helps, and good luck!

JaggerG:

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registered on 2004-03-31 07:12:40 pm.

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JaggerG

2007-09-27 11:07:25 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Hey guys, me too!

Mockballing: It's important to note that you should aim at the ground immediately after jumping. Then you can release/repress jump at any point in the jump, and morph as soon as you need to.

Ridley: After reading through kej's guide about Ridley, the most important thing to do is practice. Perhaps challenging yourself by trying to beat him missileless by dodging a lot or something. Once you beat a fairly tough challenge, you really learn his behaviors. It's not as random as it seems in the first hundred or so encounters.

Red doors: as I understand it, some enemies are very likely to refill your super missiles. Even though I've never run this game before, I suggest taking them into consideration if you encounter a red door.

Saving: If you save at the ship on any%, does it really take that long to refill equipment? O_o maybe like five seconds, but that's more than five seconds less refilling later on, I like to imagine. Maybe it's not a good idea to go there if you're not already going there, of course.

lol metroid

Hey guys, me too!

Mockballing: It's important to note that you should aim at the ground immediately after jumping. Then you can release/repress jump at any point in the jump, and morph as soon as you need to.

Ridley: After reading through kej's guide about Ridley, the most important thing to do is practice. Perhaps challenging yourself by trying to beat him missileless by dodging a lot or something. Once you beat a fairly tough challenge, you really learn his behaviors. It's not as random as it seems in the first hundred or so encounters.

Red doors: as I understand it, some enemies are very likely to refill your super missiles. Even though I've never run this game before, I suggest taking them into consideration if you encounter a red door.

Saving: If you save at the ship on any%, does it really take that long to refill equipment? O_o maybe like five seconds, but that's more than five seconds less refilling later on, I like to imagine. Maybe it's not a good idea to go there if you're not already going there, of course.

lol metroid

Gaius_4:

registered on 2007-07-05 06:10:26 pm.

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Gaius_4

2007-09-27 05:32:37 pm

Everybody has advice. :P

For Mockball: Run till you reach the desired speed (releasing run is optional at this point).
Jump to whichever height you want. You can even release jump to break the rising of your jump, just make sure to press and hold it again.
Just as soon as you pressed jump that first time - press (even 'tap') down so Samus is aiming towards the ground.
When you're just pixels away from the ground... Some say to roll your thumb from pressing down again (to roll up into the ball) to the forward direction. You could just press and hold diagonally down. I think.

So, if you do all ^those steps - it's possible to be rolling / doing the Mockball and just holding a forward direction by the time you're done. All other buttons can be released.

Ridley: I've wondered if he has a weak spot. It seems like there's sometimes I defeat him faster than others. And when I do it seems like I've hit him more in the head and/or in the mouth when he's breathing those fireballs at Samus. :-s I'm not sure.

That's all I've got. grin new

Everybody has advice.  :P

For [u]Mockball[/u]: Run till you reach the desired speed (releasing run is optional at this point).
Jump to whichever height you want.  You can even release jump to break the rising of your jump, just make sure to press and hold it again.
Just as soon as you pressed jump that first time - press (even 'tap') down so Samus is aiming towards the ground.
When you're just pixels away from the ground...  Some say to roll your thumb from pressing down again (to roll up into the ball) to the forward direction.  You could just press and hold diagonally down.  I think.

So, if you do all ^those steps - it's possible to be rolling / doing the Mockball and just holding a forward direction by the time you're done.  All other buttons can be released.

[u]Ridley[/u]: I've wondered if he has a weak spot.  It seems like there's sometimes I defeat him faster than others.  And when I do it seems like I've hit him more in the head and/or in the mouth when he's breathing those fireballs at Samus.   :-s   I'm not sure.

That's all I've got. :grinnew:

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

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ING-X

2007-09-27 05:54:03 pm

yeah

I'm fairly new to (unassisted) speedrunning too. I'm able to arm pump faster than Hotarubi but almost always fail the simplest of tricks. My first piece of advice would be to adjust the control configuration to whatever you're most comfortable with. I personally prefer A=Jump, B=Run, Y=Shoot, X=Select, Select=Cancel, and everything else is default. My second piece of advice is to practice *a lot* and (if you're like me) take a big, long, relaxing break whenever you get really frustrated (I get frustrated VERY easily). Third off, I would use the same route that Hotarubi used except get the Ice beam right before Ridley and use the Maridian route to Tourian instead of the Brinstar one. I'm not sure how much time the Speed Booster and Hi-jump would save against Kraid, but I do know that the latter makes it easier to get to Kraid's area. If you're skilled enough to make it to the Speed Booster with 2 E-tanks and 1 Reserve give it a shot.

ducknerd:

registered on 2006-12-23 11:16:33 am.

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ducknerd

2007-09-27 07:18:15 pm

Eschews avatars

In case you don't have enough advice, the current "best" route for an any% unassisted run is:
*Business as usual until Green Brinstar
*Mockball to Supers, go straight down in the big pink room for charge beam
*Spazer and Kraid
*Down to norfair, high-jump, go east for speed booster and wave beam
*Ice beam, go all the way up Red Brinstar, getting Power Bombs as you go
*Shinespark across missile lake (the "official" WS shinespark is difficult and unnecessary for a run at first, IMO)
*Phantoon, go around for Gravity Suit, go back down through Red Brinstar
*Enter Maridia through the noob tube, spark diagonally up from the very bottom of the room
*Kill Draygon, go through newly opened (no more gray door) route for Plasma
*Go down through the transport tube and head west to return to Red Brinstar, then go down again to Norfair
*Do Lower Norfair (I assume you skip Screw Attack)
*Go through Norfair->R.B.->Maridia->Crateria to Tourian

As for item pickups, the exact totals you need are pretty flexible. Here's a basic list, from shortest detour to longest, of all the pickups you could want.

Energy Tanks
The obvious one on your way to Brinstar
Near High-Jump
Right after Kraid
After Ridley
The Maridian one just after Botwoon
Small detour in Lower Norfair (in the flickery room)
You'll find you really don't ever need more than 6; as you get better, you'll probably be comfortable with just 3 or 4.

Super Missiles
The mockball ones, naturally
After Phantoon
Detour from Maridia's big grapple room
Spore Spawn's supers, accessed by a weird scrolling glitch (look in the Suitless run topic for the trick)
Snail room supers, if you're desperate
Collecting the first three packs is the norm

Power Bombs
You don't really need more than the first pack, but if you really are squeezed for them, the LN ones you're currently getting are probably your best bet.

Missiles
So many of these are right on your path, you basically don't need to worry about these (as long as you can do the Zebetite Glitch; definitely learn this!). A good rule of thumb is to get them if they're in plain sight along your path.

Hope all this helps.

In case you don't have enough advice, the current "best" route for an any% unassisted run is:
*Business as usual until Green Brinstar
*Mockball to Supers, go straight down in the big pink room for charge beam
*Spazer and Kraid
*Down to norfair, high-jump, go east for speed booster and wave beam
*Ice beam, go all the way up Red Brinstar, getting Power Bombs as you go
*Shinespark across missile lake (the "official" WS shinespark is difficult and unnecessary for a run at first, IMO)
*Phantoon, go around for Gravity Suit, go back down through Red Brinstar
*Enter Maridia through the noob tube, spark diagonally up from the very bottom of the room
*Kill Draygon, go through newly opened (no more gray door) route for Plasma
*Go down through the transport tube and head west to return to Red Brinstar, then go down again to Norfair
*Do Lower Norfair (I assume you skip Screw Attack)
*Go through Norfair->R.B.->Maridia->Crateria to Tourian

As for item pickups, the exact totals you need are pretty flexible. Here's a basic list, from shortest detour to longest, of all the pickups you could want.

Energy Tanks
The obvious one on your way to Brinstar
Near High-Jump
Right after Kraid
After Ridley
The Maridian one just after Botwoon
Small detour in Lower Norfair (in the flickery room)
You'll find you really don't ever need more than 6; as you get better, you'll probably be comfortable with just 3 or 4.

Super Missiles
The mockball ones, naturally
After Phantoon
Detour from Maridia's big grapple room
Spore Spawn's supers, accessed by a weird scrolling glitch (look in the Suitless run topic for the trick)
Snail room supers, if you're desperate
Collecting the first three packs is the norm

Power Bombs
You don't really need more than the first pack, but if you really are squeezed for them, the LN ones you're currently getting are probably your best bet.

Missiles
So many of these are right on your path, you basically don't need to worry about these (as long as you can do the Zebetite Glitch; definitely learn this!). A good rule of thumb is to get them if they're in plain sight along your path.

Hope all this helps.

Zeke:

is in the group Hacks and Fan Games Moderator.

registered on 2004-11-08 12:45:22 pm.

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Zeke

2007-09-28 10:17:22 am

Time bomb set get out fast!

Talk about quick responses, eh? 13 years and six sequels later, we all still love Super Metroid. Welcome, chardish. I was in your position not too long ago, and now I'm within a hair of breaking 1:00 (which isn't competitive or anything, but it's a lot better than the average player, so I'll be proud when I manage it).

Mockballs: The most important thing is to keep trying. It's easier to learn the timing through practice than by reading instructions. You will get it eventually, but it'll probably take a whole lot of attempts, so don't get discouraged. I must have failed my first hundred mockballs.

Ridley: He's a bastard and no mistake. At last count, I could take him with (I think) three energy tanks; I got there gradually, by skipping a couple more of them each run. I find charged shots a lot more effective than other weapons. You'll get a feel for when he's about to die -- at that point, letting him grab you will trigger the death faster. This is risky, but it can be your salvation if you're almost dead yourself.

Grapple: Definitely worth learning to skip this. It's awkward and slow anyway. Since your route takes you to Kraid before entering Norfair, you have the necessary wall jumping skill; the rest is just a matter of learning some shinesparks (and Draygon). A cool side effect of this is that you'll get Plasma without fighting Crocomire -- so after you're done that segment, you can go kill him with it just for fun. It's highly satisfying.

Finally, watch lots of runs. Smokey's 0:36, while no longer the record, is still one of my favourite speedruns to watch (his Speed Guide at GameFAQs is also well worth reading). Same for Scarlet's classic 0:55 100% run; it's not any% but it'll still help. And there's a lot to be learned from TAS runs as long as you remember what you're watching.

Good luck!

Talk about quick responses, eh?  13 years and six sequels later, we all still love Super Metroid.  Welcome, chardish.  I was in your position not too long ago, and now I'm within a hair of breaking 1:00 (which isn't competitive or anything, but it's a lot better than the average player, so I'll be proud when I manage it).

Mockballs: The most important thing is to keep trying.  It's easier to learn the timing through practice than by reading instructions.  You [i]will[/i] get it eventually, but it'll probably take a whole lot of attempts, so don't get discouraged.  I must have failed my first hundred mockballs.

Ridley: He's a bastard and no mistake.  At last count, I could take him with (I think) three energy tanks; I got there gradually, by skipping a couple more of them each run.  I find charged shots a lot more effective than other weapons.  You'll get a feel for when he's about to die -- at that point, letting him grab you will trigger the death faster.  This is risky, but it can be your salvation if you're almost dead yourself.

Grapple: Definitely worth learning to skip this.  It's awkward and slow anyway.  Since your route takes you to Kraid before entering Norfair, you have the necessary wall jumping skill; the rest is just a matter of learning some shinesparks (and Draygon).  A cool side effect of this is that you'll get Plasma without fighting Crocomire -- so after you're done that segment, you can go kill him with it just for fun.  It's highly satisfying.

Finally, watch lots of runs.  Smokey's 0:36, while no longer the record, is still one of my favourite speedruns to watch (his Speed Guide at GameFAQs is also well worth reading).  Same for Scarlet's classic 0:55 100% run; it's not any% but it'll still help.  And there's a lot to be learned from TAS runs as long as you remember what you're watching.

Good luck!

JaggerG:

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JaggerG

2007-09-28 12:06:47 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Quote from Zeke:

13 years and six sequels later

Five are prequels. :^P

Quote from Gaius_4:

Ridley: I've wondered if he has a weak spot. It seems like there's sometimes I defeat him faster than others. And when I do it seems like I've hit him more in the head and/or in the mouth when he's breathing those fireballs at Samus. :-s I'm not sure.

Not as far as I've ever heard. You probably keep hitting his tail and they're actually bouncing off. For this reason, it's uh... "safer" to use charged beams, but super missiles are still MUCH faster, assuming you actually hit him. Like has been said already, learn his patterns and you're eventually going to find that he's not impossible. I thought about saying "not so bad," but "not impossible" is more accurate.

Kejardon:

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Kejardon

2007-09-28 12:27:08 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Ridley doesn't die when his health hits 0. When his health hits 0, he'll start doing some sort of ramming attack (charge at Samus, then go almost straight back). He dies when he either does 10 ramming attacks, or when he grabs Samus (but NOT while tail-bouncing)
It's safest to be grabbed when morphed into a ball, so that you're much less likely to touch Ridley's hitbox.

Ridley's AI can sometimes be incredibly stubborn about dieing. There's a fix for this: Lay a power bomb and Ridley will IMMEDIATELY attempt to grab Samus, which will cause him to die if he's at 0 health.

You'll often see people use a powerbomb "because it's a free hit at the start of the fight". Don't. The powerbomb hit will give Ridley an extended invincibility time at the start of the fight, and if you have so much as charged wave/spazer, you can do more damage than a single power bomb hit for free. It's usually a good idea to pick up plasma anyways.

And for the details on how to dodge and counter Ridley's attacks (especially if you have relatively little equipment, specifically no screw attack), see the low % guide on GameFAQs. The screw attack makes you invulnerable to most of Ridley's attacks, except his tail.

Ridley doesn't die when his health hits 0. When his health hits 0, he'll start doing some sort of ramming attack (charge at Samus, then go almost straight back). He dies when he either does 10 ramming attacks, or when he grabs Samus (but NOT while tail-bouncing)
It's safest to be grabbed when morphed into a ball, so that you're much less likely to touch Ridley's hitbox.

Ridley's AI can sometimes be incredibly stubborn about dieing. There's a fix for this: Lay a power bomb and Ridley will IMMEDIATELY attempt to grab Samus, which will cause him to die if he's at 0 health.

You'll often see people use a powerbomb "because it's a free hit at the start of the fight". Don't. The powerbomb hit will give Ridley an extended invincibility time at the start of the fight, and if you have so much as charged wave/spazer, you can do more damage than a single power bomb hit for free. It's usually a good idea to pick up plasma anyways.

And for the details on how to dodge and counter Ridley's attacks (especially if you have relatively little equipment, specifically no screw attack), see the low % guide on GameFAQs. The screw attack makes you invulnerable to most of Ridley's attacks, except his tail.

chardish:

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chardish

2007-09-28 04:14:21 pm

Sweet! And with all of your advice, I got my time down to 1:07. 37% item collection rate, too. Exciting!

Things I'm proud of:
1) Ridley fight. Went into it with 5 etanks and 1 rtank, and only took 3 etanks worth of damage. Kejardon's FAQ really helped, especially when he discussed the different attack patterns Ridley has at different life levels. This time, I started with charged shots until he got to the point where he started swooping around and doing more complex maneuvers, and switched over to supers for a nice clean kill.

2) Shinesparks - especially the shinespark into the WS. Unlike the videos on the site, I used two different sparks instead of one. After the missile moat, if you use a quick charge on the other side of the moat, you can just barely build up a spark (but your momentum carries you into the lake, so you have to spin-jump out of it before the spark.) I don't know if this has been discovered before (probably has) - I can take a video if anyone's curious.

3) Maridia grapple room. I couldn't believe I was able to walljump up the right side of the room without using the grapple at all. Next time I'll probably try using a gravity jump, as it's probably quicker.

Things to do differently next time:
1) Tourian. Gosh I botched this one up big time - not only did I let one of the metroids grab me, which slowed me down significantly, but I also got through to Mother Brain without enough missiles to kill her in the glass tube. This forced me to go back to the ammo recharge station. I've seen the video on how to do the zebetite glitch, but I can't seem to figure it out. Does someone have instructions?

2) Route. I decided to err on the side of caution and get an extra energy tank before Ridley, so after WS I went down through the escape shaft in Crateria and into blue Brinstar to grab the tank there, and then powerbombed my way out the left side. I'm a bit more confident now, so I'll probably go down red Brinstar instead - this could save me a minute or two.

3) Practice mockball more. Took me about 5 attempts to skip Spore Spawn - ideally, I should be able to do it in one, and use the mockball to get out of the ice beam room more quickly.

Sticking with it...

Sweet! And with all of your advice, I got my time down to [b]1:07[/b]. 37% item collection rate, too. Exciting!

Things I'm proud of:
1) Ridley fight. Went into it with 5 etanks and 1 rtank, and only took 3 etanks worth of damage. Kejardon's FAQ really helped, especially when he discussed the different attack patterns Ridley has at different life levels. This time, I started with charged shots until he got to the point where he started swooping around and doing more complex maneuvers, and switched over to supers for a nice clean kill.

2) Shinesparks - especially the shinespark into the WS. Unlike the videos on the site, I used two different sparks instead of one. After the missile moat, if you use a quick charge on the other side of the moat, you can just barely build up a spark (but your momentum carries you into the lake, so you have to spin-jump out of it before the spark.) I don't know if this has been discovered before (probably has) - I can take a video if anyone's curious.

3) Maridia grapple room. I couldn't believe I was able to walljump up the right side of the room without using the grapple at all. Next time I'll probably try using a gravity jump, as it's probably quicker.

Things to do differently next time:
1) Tourian. Gosh I botched this one up big time - not only did I let one of the metroids grab me, which slowed me down significantly, but I also got through to Mother Brain without enough missiles to kill her in the glass tube. This forced me to go back to the ammo recharge station. I've seen the video on how to do the zebetite glitch, but I can't seem to figure it out. Does someone have instructions?

2) Route. I decided to err on the side of caution and get an extra energy tank before Ridley, so after WS I went down through the escape shaft in Crateria and into blue Brinstar to grab the tank there, and then powerbombed my way out the left side. I'm a bit more confident now, so I'll probably go down red Brinstar instead - this could save me a minute or two.

3) Practice mockball more. Took me about 5 attempts to skip Spore Spawn - ideally, I should be able to do it in one, and use the mockball to get out of the ice beam room more quickly.

Sticking with it...

Zeke:

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Zeke

2007-09-28 06:07:12 pm

Time bomb set get out fast!

Way to go! I'll have to dust off my Super cart... at this rate you'll pull off sub-hour before I do, and that would be a little embarrassing given that I made my own post about it two and a half years ago.

Quote from chardish:

2) Shinesparks - especially the shinespark into the WS. Unlike the videos on the site, I used two different sparks instead of one. [...] I don't know if this has been discovered before (probably has)

Well known, I'm afraid. There are many ways to spark into the Wrecked Ship. (ducknerd mentioned this in his post.) I always use two sparks myself -- the one-spark method is brilliant but much harder.

Quote:

I decided to err on the side of caution and get an extra energy tank before Ridley, so after WS I went down through the escape shaft in Crateria and into blue Brinstar to grab the tank there, and then powerbombed my way out the left side. I'm a bit more confident now, so I'll probably go down red Brinstar instead - this could save me a minute or two.

Yeah, that's a long detour. You're much better off with the one after Botwoon (or, if you've already added that to your route, the one in Lower Norfair).

Quote:

Took me about 5 attempts to skip Spore Spawn - ideally, I should be able to do it in one

The beauty of it is that you can mess up ten or fifteen times and still be saving time. Even so, you definitely want to save first. (IMO, you shouldn't cut down on saves until you're really good at everything else. The repetition will drive you nuts otherwise.)

Way to go!  I'll have to dust off my Super cart... at this rate you'll pull off sub-hour before I do, and that would be a little embarrassing given that I made my own post about it [i]two and a half years[/i] ago.

[quote="chardish"]2) Shinesparks - especially the shinespark into the WS. Unlike the videos on the site, I used two different sparks instead of one. [...] I don't know if this has been discovered before (probably has)[/quote]

Well known, I'm afraid.  There are many ways to spark into the Wrecked Ship.  (ducknerd mentioned this in his post.)  I always use two sparks myself -- the one-spark method is brilliant but much harder.

[quote]I decided to err on the side of caution and get an extra energy tank before Ridley, so after WS I went down through the escape shaft in Crateria and into blue Brinstar to grab the tank there, and then powerbombed my way out the left side. I'm a bit more confident now, so I'll probably go down red Brinstar instead - this could save me a minute or two.[/quote]

Yeah, that's a long detour.  You're much better off with the one after Botwoon (or, if you've already added that to your route, the one in Lower Norfair).

[quote]Took me about 5 attempts to skip Spore Spawn - ideally, I should be able to do it in one[/quote]

The beauty of it is that you can mess up ten or fifteen times and still be saving time.  Even so, you definitely want to save first.  (IMO, you shouldn't cut down on saves until you're really good at everything else.  The repetition will drive you nuts otherwise.)

BlueGlass:

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BlueGlass

2007-09-28 06:31:06 pm

Great work, Chardish!

Glad you found our advice useful.

ING-X:

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ING-X

2007-09-29 03:20:21 pm

yeah

Hooray! :P

Max:

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Max

2007-09-30 06:09:18 am

Waaaaaaa i want insanity

If you want to see a genius at work download the SS vid.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/SuperMetroid.html

That is hotarubi's run.
Very good.
Made me want to start speedrunning seriously.

ING-X:

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ING-X

2007-10-01 02:42:44 pm

yeah

Quote from Max:

If you want to see a genius at work download the SS vid.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/SuperMetroid.html

That is hotarubi's run.
Very good.
Made me want to start speedrunning seriously.

Would be easy if it wasn't for the SNES's wobbly control pad. :(

chardish:

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chardish

2007-10-02 02:14:38 pm

Down to 1:04 this time around!

Pulled off the WS shinespark in one shot instead of 2, the way God intended : )

Still need to know how to glitch through the zebetites. And I could have shaved a minute or two off that time if I hadn't stocked up on missiles before taking on Ridley - I ended up killing him with only the beam. I might just do that from now on.

Draygon could have gone better, too. I didn't have many supers at all going in, so I had to play that fight very defensively.

I also need to learn how to skip screw attack. I don't know how to build up a speed-boost going into the "crumbling pillars" room in LN - I can't open the door into that room quickly enough, and I just end up bumping into it.

Still aiming for 1:00...

BlueGlass:

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BlueGlass

2007-10-02 02:32:57 pm

Congrats on the improvement!

For glitching through the Zebebites, first freeze the bottom Rinka the moment it appears, then get hit by something, then (before the invincibility from the hit wears off) spin jump with screw attack OFF against the Zebebite andump and hold left on landing. What's going on is that the frozen Rinka moves Samus a pixel inside the wall when she spinjumps on to it, and the invincibility from the hit makes Samus not get hot by the Zebebite (forcing her outside the wall), And since she's a pixel inside the wall, she's past the Zebzbite's barrier, so she can go sraight through. Screw Attack removes invincibility time, so it's important to have it dequipped before doing the trick.

For Ridley, you should first use up any supers you might have, then stick with charge beam for the rest of the fight.

And for that speedboost, do the following:

start the boost like a normal quick charge
during the door transition, let go of run and hold shoot
holding shoot causes you to fire a shot as soon as you enter the next room
Look at the background of this room. You want to repress run when Samus crosses the second pillar from the left. You'll start boosting as you go through the door.

Congrats on the improvement!

For glitching through the Zebebites, first freeze the bottom Rinka the moment it appears, then get hit by something, then (before the invincibility from the hit wears off) spin jump with screw attack OFF against the Zebebite andump and hold left on landing.  What's going on is that the frozen Rinka moves Samus a pixel inside the wall when she spinjumps on to it, and the invincibility from the hit makes Samus not get hot by the Zebebite (forcing her outside the wall), And since she's a pixel inside the wall, she's past the Zebzbite's barrier, so she can go sraight through.  Screw Attack removes invincibility time, so it's important to have it dequipped before doing the trick.

For Ridley, you should first use up any supers you might have, then stick with charge beam for the rest of the fight.

And for that speedboost, do the following:

start the boost like a normal quick charge
during the door transition, let go of run and hold shoot
holding shoot causes you to fire a shot as soon as you enter the next room
Look at the background of this room.  You want to repress run when Samus crosses the second pillar from the left.  You'll start boosting as you go through the door.

JaggerG:

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JaggerG

2007-10-04 05:04:19 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

If you're still talking about the same room, you might consider green-gate-glitching. REALLY easy to get enough running room, then. After that, shoot the next door, spin-jump, hit up-right+Jump and you're through like Scooby-Doo.

Max:

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Max

2007-10-04 08:29:22 pm

Waaaaaaa i want insanity

Don't you mean Up+Left.
You can't green gate glitch a Gate with the switch to the right.

==
Edit: What's with me and Page Breaks.
==

Fano7:

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Fano7

2007-10-05 05:16:05 am

Every Bit Counts

Quote from Max:

Don't you mean Up+Left.
You can't green gate glitch a Gate with the switch to the right.

I heard that you can, but you need to be going really fast. But in SM, there is not enough space beside any green gate facing right.

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Gaius_4

2007-10-05 01:57:10 pm

And thus can't be done since there isn't enough room to gain enough speed. :P

-eh, Right? :-s

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ducknerd

2007-10-05 06:23:28 pm

Eschews avatars

Touché. (although, come to think of it, there might be a different situation in some hacks, I should go test that).

ICheatAtGolf:

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ICheatAtGolf

2007-10-05 06:50:22 pm

Way to go, Chardish!

Judging by your level of progression, i'd say you have quite a good chance of being one of the best speedrunners of the game!

I look forward to seeing you beat my best time of 0:40 grin new

Again, congratulations on such fast progression and I hope you continue to speedrun the game, its always nice to see new stuff.

A couple tips:

For draygon, he can be beaten quite fast with shinesparks. Not only is the shinespark method fast, it is ideal to use when you're low on ammo.

The key to this trick is obviously the short charge, which is surprisingly easy to learn. Just hit the run button for a short time ever time samus' front foot touches the ground. Hold it on the third repetition.

From my experience, to do the most damage using this trick, shinespark draygon in the back of the head. Just don't kill him using this method, because you'll most likely die yourself.

Also, you can get the blue suit using this method, which will save a few seconds in the long mochtroid room. Hope this helps a bit.

Way to go, Chardish!

Judging by your level of progression, i'd say you have quite a good chance of being one of the best speedrunners of the game!

I look forward to seeing you beat my best time of 0:40  :grinnew:

Again, congratulations on such fast progression and I hope you continue to speedrun the game, its always nice to see new stuff.

A couple tips:

For draygon, he can be beaten quite fast with shinesparks.  Not only is the shinespark method fast, it is ideal to use when you're low on ammo.

The key to this trick is obviously the short charge, which is surprisingly easy to learn.  Just hit the run button for a short time ever time samus' [b]front[/b] foot touches the ground.  Hold it on the third repetition.

From my experience, to do the most damage using this trick, shinespark draygon in the back of the head.  Just don't kill him using this method, because you'll most likely die yourself.

Also, you can get the blue suit using this method, which will save a few seconds in the long mochtroid room.   Hope this helps a bit.