Alternate(?) Method of the Pre-Draygon ShineSpark

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

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072

2007-04-18 05:01:47 pm

coral to complement blue

I don't know whether or not anybody other than me has accomplished it, but it is quite possible to do this shinespark without gravity jumping on a console.

Using the usual method, I could never pull it off, so this may be easier, assuming you are amazing at single wall jumping.

By holding in the jump button, and letting go for only an instant and holding it again for your next jump, you can walljump in a nice fluid motion. Start this immediately after you charge, 3/4 of the way across the room. You should make it up the shaft in 5 or 6 quick near vertical jumps. On your final jump, shoot the door on the way up, and run through to the next room.

I'll look for some screenshots to make a better explanation...

Thread title:

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2007-04-19 03:01:06 am

I see the point in your suggestion, but I still can't do it.
My best was to keep the charge till the door transition, but it got cancelled immediately in the next room before I could jump to get the needed height for the spark. I was like 10-20 frames too late...

Maybe you can record a smv using Snes9x and uploading it for us to show exactly how you did it?

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

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Tonski

2007-04-19 07:29:07 am

I've always done it the walljump way. The gravity jump way of doing that spark is really just frustrating, as I don't even like that gravity jump that much.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

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072

2007-04-19 02:19:37 pm

coral to complement blue

No luck in finding screenshots... and I'm quite incompetent on an emu, so that's probably not an option.

The problems that I first had:

-The first jump - If you turn around before you hit the wall, you can get the first jump faster and start with good momentum.

-The smooth jumps - You don't want to walljump as fast as you can; your jumps should last near half a second.

-The final jump - If you jump too high, you'll easily lose 10+ frames. Your final jump should start at about 2 or 3 tiles above the water, and you should shoot during the last 2 tiles of the wall.

So far, I've managed to accomplish this 4 times, but you REALLY don't want to know how many times I've failed, even with this all in mind.

EDIT: ....Wow, the Gravity Jump method is MUCH easier. o_0 I can get the spark with time to spare... really, I have no idea why I had trouble with this.

So, for those who do have trouble (which seems to be everyone), here's my explanation:

During the first door transition, get you're index finger on start, and middle+ring fingers on your run and jump buttons. Hold in run, obviously. Right when you come out of the door, press start. While the pause screen is loading, continue to run 3/4 of the way across the room, tap down to charge, and spin jump into the wall (Hold Jump). You want to get the jump in at the last moment possible. That's the key to Gravity jumping - the longer you wait to jump after pausing, the longer/higher you jump. So during the pause, get your right hand back into a dignified position, and turn off gravity suit. Press pause once more, and hold in jump, run, and right. when you clear the water, do two quick walljumps. Make sure you shoot before landing, otherwise the door won't open in time. And, make sure you don't pass the ledge up by more than a few pixels after your last jump.

Hope this helps.

No luck in finding screenshots... and I'm quite incompetent on an emu, so that's probably not an option.

The problems that I first had:

-The first jump - If you turn around before you hit the wall, you can get the first jump faster and start with good momentum.

-The smooth jumps - You don't want to walljump as fast as you can; your jumps should last near half a second.

-The final jump - If you jump too high, you'll easily lose 10+ frames. Your final jump should start at about 2 or 3 tiles above the water, and you should shoot during the last 2 tiles of the wall.

So far, I've managed to accomplish this 4 times, but you REALLY don't want to know how many times I've failed, even with this all in mind.

EDIT: ....Wow, the Gravity Jump method is MUCH easier. o_0 I can get the spark with time to spare... really, I have no idea why I had trouble with this.

So, for those who do have trouble (which seems to be everyone), here's my explanation:

During the first door transition, get you're index finger on start, and middle+ring fingers on your run and jump buttons. Hold in run, obviously. Right when you come out of the door, press start. While the pause screen is loading, continue to run 3/4 of the way across the room, tap down to charge, and spin jump into the wall (Hold Jump). You want to get the jump in at the last moment possible. That's the key to Gravity jumping - the longer you wait to jump after pausing, the longer/higher you jump. So during the pause, get your right hand back into a dignified position, and turn off gravity suit. Press pause once more, and hold in jump, run, and right. when you clear the water, do two quick walljumps. Make sure you shoot before landing, otherwise the door won't open in time. And, make sure you don't pass the ledge up by more than a few pixels after your last jump.

Hope this helps.

Jweb Guru:

registered on 2007-04-09 10:16:40 am.

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Jweb Guru

2007-04-21 05:34:24 pm

Quote from 072:

During the first door transition, get you're index finger on start, and middle+ring fingers on your run and jump buttons. Hold in run, obviously. Right when you come out of the door, press start. While the pause screen is loading, continue to run 3/4 of the way across the room, tap down to charge, and spin jump into the wall (Hold Jump). You want to get the jump in at the last moment possible. That's the key to Gravity jumping - the longer you wait to jump after pausing, the longer/higher you jump. So during the pause, get your right hand back into a dignified position, and turn off gravity suit. Press pause once more, and hold in jump, run, and right. when you clear the water, do two quick walljumps. Make sure you shoot before landing, otherwise the door won't open in time. And, make sure you don't pass the ledge up by more than a few pixels after your last jump.

This is more or less how it has to be done, in my experience, though it's still very frustrating. A few things I'd like to add:

The speed at which you enter the door determines the point at which you should press start. I find it much easier to do the jump if I start out very slow, so some variant of the quick charge is your friend here (I use the tap-when-Samus's-foot-hits-the-ground + stutter-walk method, which can be tricky but with practice is pretty reliable and saves a lot of space while keeping you nice and slow; Hotarubi uses the standard wait-until-the-first-step-then-hold-Z method, which makes it a lot more challenging.
I haven't been able to make myself do this properly yet, but stopping right after pressing down would make this a LOT easier, since the gravity jump's effectiveness depends on both when and where you jump and it doesn't work well too near the wall. You want to time this so that you're at AROUND three/quarters of the way across the room; the advantage of this method is that it doesn't really matter what speed you're going at as long as you STOP in the right place, so in most cases you can press start slightly later. However, only with the quick charge is it possible to time it so that you jump immediately after you stop charging, and as the screen fades; if you do that you have a LOT of time (comparatively) to execute the spark.
Getting out the door at the top with enough time and then failing the shinespark is extremely frustrating; this has been mentioned before, but make sure you jump right and then press C immediately AFTER you clear the top of the wall behind you.
The moment you start the shinespark (or if you failed to execute it) immediately press start and put on your suit; that way, even if you fail the spark, you won't lose a significant amount of time, and won't forget that you can't move properly underwater.
You'll get VERY good at telling whether you have enough time left after awhile, but odds are if Samus isn't shiny during the door transition, you don't.

[quote="072"]During the first door transition, get you're index finger on start, and middle+ring fingers on your run and jump buttons. Hold in run, obviously. Right when you come out of the door, press start. While the pause screen is loading, continue to run 3/4 of the way across the room, tap down to charge, and spin jump into the wall (Hold Jump). You want to get the jump in at the last moment possible. That's the key to Gravity jumping - the longer you wait to jump after pausing, the longer/higher you jump. So during the pause, get your right hand back into a dignified position, and turn off gravity suit. Press pause once more, and hold in jump, run, and right. when you clear the water, do two quick walljumps. Make sure you shoot before landing, otherwise the door won't open in time. And, make sure you don't pass the ledge up by more than a few pixels after your last jump.[/quote]

This is more or less how it has to be done, in my experience, though it's still very frustrating.  A few things I'd like to add:
[list][*]The speed at which you enter the door determines the point at which you should press start.  I find it much easier to do the jump if I start out very slow, so some variant of the quick charge is your friend here (I use the tap-when-Samus's-foot-hits-the-ground + stutter-walk method, which can be tricky but with practice is pretty reliable and saves a lot of space while keeping you nice and slow; Hotarubi uses the standard wait-until-the-first-step-then-hold-Z method, which makes it a lot more challenging.

[*]I haven't been able to make myself do this properly yet, but stopping right after pressing down would make this a LOT easier, since the gravity jump's effectiveness depends on both when and where you jump and it doesn't work well too near the wall.  You want to time this so that you're at AROUND three/quarters of the way across the room; the advantage of this method is that it doesn't really matter what speed you're going at as long as you STOP in the right place, so in most cases you can press start slightly later.  However, only with the quick charge is it possible to time it so that you jump immediately after you stop charging, and as the screen fades; if you do that you have a LOT of time (comparatively) to execute the spark.

[*]Getting out the door at the top with enough time and then failing the shinespark is extremely frustrating; this has been mentioned before, but make sure you jump right and then press C immediately AFTER you clear the top of the wall behind you.

[*]The moment you start the shinespark (or if you failed to execute it) immediately press start and put on your suit; that way, even if you fail the spark, you won't lose a significant amount of time, and won't forget that you can't move properly underwater.

[*]You'll get VERY good at telling whether you have enough time left after awhile, but odds are if Samus isn't shiny during the door transition, you don't.[/list]

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

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072

2007-04-21 07:20:47 pm

coral to complement blue

Well, you pretty much NEED to have the speed booster going by the first door transition, if that's what you mean. Speed, however, isn't really an issue for me. I just use the standard short charge from the sand pit, shooting the door the same time I start holding in run, and it works. In the next room, you probably want to jump with two tiles worth of space between you and the grapple wall. Charge your shine with 3 or 4 tiles.

Jweb Guru:

registered on 2007-04-09 10:16:40 am.

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Jweb Guru

2007-04-22 10:18:44 am

Standard short charge works but is more difficult for me. Probably it's because my reflexes are terrible, though.

ICheatAtGolf:

registered on 2007-01-04 02:21:29 pm.

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ICheatAtGolf

2007-05-11 08:57:11 am

If your going for the gravity jump technique, here is what you need to do:

Enter the room at full speed, as soon as its possible to move samus press the start button

Now you must charge, run forward, and jump ALL before the screen goes into pause mode

Switch the suits

BAM, you should fly just above the water's surface and now you must do some very fluid wall jumps and a quick ledge-grab to get into the next room quickly

Jump the frame AFTER samus enters the next room, so you don't hit the ledge above you, and be ABSOLUTELY sure to use the R-RIGHT-JUMP method of mid-air shinespark rather than the UP-RIGHT-JUMP method. The second method holds too much of a risk for a straight-up shine spark.

Here's an SMV of the wall jump method for those who wanted to see it: (I re-recorded several times in each room, but it was done in real-time, so anyone who is seriously considering this trick should practice both post-shinespark spin jumps and single-wall jumping)

attachment:

walljumpmadness.smv

Jweb Guru:

registered on 2007-04-09 10:16:40 am.

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Jweb Guru

2007-05-15 04:52:55 pm

Okay, just wanted to say that this trick becomes like 400% easier if you STOP RUNNING like Hotarubi does when you charge, THEN do the jump from a near-standstill during the fadeout. I have no idea why but this makes the trick much more doable.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

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072

2007-05-15 05:06:11 pm

coral to complement blue

Well, you aren't forced to jump too early if you pause before getting too close to the wall.

Jweb Guru:

registered on 2007-04-09 10:16:40 am.

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Jweb Guru

2007-05-15 05:23:07 pm

Quote from 072:

Well, you aren't forced to jump too early if you pause before getting too close to the wall.

Good point. I suppose I just assumed that a running jump would go higher.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

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072

2007-05-15 05:49:27 pm

coral to complement blue

You would need more running room to make it go any higher. When you continue running after you charge, you don't keep any of your momentum (although it looks like you do), so you would only get about 2 or 3 tiles more of running space the other method. Doesn't do much to the jump.