About my Reverse Boss Run

view all posts by JaggerG

2007-08-20 02:39:07 pm

yeah

After not playing this game for months, I thought about my crazy idea of a RBO run on the console, and I've come to the conclusion that I just can't do it. There are many reasons why I have decided this. First off, I don't currently have the equipment to record something off my TV and put it on the Internet. Second off, if I can't even defeat Ridley with the Varia suit, what are the chances of me beating him with the power suit? And third off, I REALLY don't want to have to suffer Maridia and the Draygon battle.

However, I have gotten much more patient since then, and have decided to once again attempt my Reverse Boss TAS. So far I have done the whole run using frame advance, and I really like the result so far. I won't put a preview here until I get far enough for an enjoyable video. Wish me luck!

P.S. I apologize to anyone who I disappointed with this post. I'm sure someone will eventually make a RBO on the console. I'm sure it's possible.

Thread title:

JaggerG:

is in the group Global Moderator.

registered on 2004-03-31 07:12:40 pm.

Gender: male

Location: #metroid

JaggerG

2007-08-20 05:02:44 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Yeah, enough PBs, Missiles, Super Missiles, and Etanks, and Ridley isn't so bad. Try playing SMI sometime.

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

2007-08-22 02:44:47 pm

yeah

I actually might do a RBO on the console someday, but I might not be able to record it, since I don't have the right equipment. If all else fails, I'll just do it in real time on an emulator. But like I said, no promises.

Edit: I have a preview for you guys. It covers the entire Ceres Station and shows it blowing up. It may not be very long, but enjoy anyway.

Edit: Hold on, I need to compress the AVI size, so you may need to wait a while before seeing the preview. And by a while I mean a few minutes.

Edit: Nevermind, I'll just upload the SMV. Here you go:

attachment:

ing-xsupermetroidrbo.smv

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

view all posts by Tonski

Tonski

2007-08-23 02:54:04 am

Quote from ING-X:

If all else fails, I'll just do it in real time on an emulator. But like I said, no promises.

Nice smv, but I see you're not using memory watcher and that wasn't played in real time. :) So you're planning on doing a RBO TAS? Saturn's already working on one, though I think it's going to take a pretty long time for him to finish it. I'd just wait if I were you and wanted badly to see one. Of course if you hunger for TASing and would like to see your own work, go go go!

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

view all posts by hero of the day

2007-08-23 01:53:23 pm

yeah

Quote from Tonski:

Quote from ING-X:

If all else fails, I'll just do it in real time on an emulator. But like I said, no promises.

Nice smv, but I see you're not using memory watcher and that wasn't played in real time. :) So you're planning on doing a RBO TAS? Saturn's already working on one, though I think it's going to take a pretty long time for him to finish it. I'd just wait if I were you and wanted badly to see one. Of course if you hunger for TASing and would like to see your own work, go go go!

Memory watcher? Why would I need a memory watcher in Ceres? Also I never said this was done in real time I just said I might do one in real time. I'm actually thinking of doing one on the console and one in TAS form so I can do one for both audiences. My console one will be a speed run, though, and it will be easier now that there's a guide for RBO on GameFAQ's (I've been away for a while so I don't know how long ago that FAQ was made). Also how do I record from my TV and put my work on the Internet?

[quote="Tonski"][quote="ING-X"]If all else fails, I'll just do it in real time on an emulator. But like I said, no promises.[/quote]
Nice smv, but I see you're not using memory watcher and that wasn't played in real time. :) So you're planning on doing a RBO TAS? Saturn's already working on one, though I think it's going to take a pretty long time for him to finish it. I'd just wait if I were you and wanted badly to see one. Of course if you hunger for TASing and would like to see your own work, go go go![/quote]

Memory watcher? Why would I need a memory watcher in Ceres? Also I never said this was done in real time I just said I might do one in real time. I'm actually thinking of doing one on the console and one in TAS form so I can do one for both audiences. My console one will be a speed run, though, and it will be easier now that there's a guide for RBO on GameFAQ's (I've been away for a while so I don't know how long ago that FAQ was made). Also how do I record from my TV and put my work on the Internet?

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

view all posts by Tonski

Tonski

2007-08-23 02:20:33 pm

Quote from ING-X:

Memory watcher? Why would I need a memory watcher in Ceres?

To know the exact pixel positions where you get the doors to open, to know the exact first frames when to get hit by Ridley's tail again, to know exactly on what frame to jump to a steam damage boost, etc. Memory watcher just makes everything easier and allows much higher optimizations.

hero of the day:

registered on 2007-02-05 07:46:38 pm.

hero of the day

2007-08-23 04:55:07 pm

hey ING-X,

You have some TASing skills. You are a little rough around the edges, but I think you have the potential to make a good run with some practice. If you are really interesting in making a RBO TAS, please check out this new route that I created a while ago. It is different than Saturn's route and it should be slightly faster in the end. It fights crocomire and collects the grapple beam in order to save lots of time in maridia.

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

2007-08-24 02:00:28 pm

yeah

Quote from Tonski:

Quote from ING-X:

Memory watcher? Why would I need a memory watcher in Ceres?

To know the exact pixel positions where you get the doors to open, to know the exact first frames when to get hit by Ridley's tail again, to know exactly on what frame to jump to a steam damage boost, etc. Memory watcher just makes everything easier and allows much higher optimizations.

But doesn't frame count have kind of the same effect?

Edit: I haven't started my console RBO run yet. I've decided to practice against Ridley with the Varia Suit before I fight him with the Power Suit.

Edit: Looked through the movie again and didn't see any mistakes. Can anyone tell me where I made a mistake? Because I can't see anything.

Edit: Nevermind, I saw one in the first room. I went into the door a few frames after I could have. Looks like I can't hex-edit it, though, since doing that in this situation would destroy the rest of the movie. Oh well.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

view all posts by hero of the day

2007-08-24 03:11:39 pm

Hurr Durr

Actually there are quite a lot of misstakes.

For starters you should really use memory watcher to determine the earliest pixels that the doors start to open so you gain maximum speed before the transition.

Also you don't use corner boosting, pushing against platforms and pressing down for 1 frame then forward for 1 frame at the right frame will push you down some pixels, and when jumping up to a platform pressing down for 1 frame then forward for 1 at the last frame where jump is pushed you get up on the platform faster. You can read all about these tricks and more at http://tasvideos.org/SuperMetroidTricks.html.

But most of all the biggest gains comes from luck manipulation of the steam, entering doors at different frames makes the steam act differently, if done correctly you won't need to avoid any steam at all by doing slow jumps and such.

I'll attach a video that shows the fastest possible way of doing ceres that is known today (to do it any faster luck manipulation is needed in the opening cutscene and such) although to go this fast subpixel optimization is needed.

Hmm actually that video goes all the way till after the big purple diagonal room but It's to much hassle to fix it.

EDIT: Also it should be possible to do ceres a little faster with the new acceleration storage trick.

Actually there are quite a lot of misstakes.

For starters you should really use memory watcher to determine the earliest pixels that the doors start to open so you gain maximum speed before the transition.

Also you don't use corner boosting, pushing against platforms and pressing down for 1 frame then forward for 1 frame at the right frame will push you down some pixels, and when jumping up to a platform pressing down for 1 frame then forward for 1 at the last frame where jump is pushed you get up on the platform faster. You can read all about these tricks and more at http://tasvideos.org/SuperMetroidTricks.html.

But most of all the biggest gains comes from luck manipulation of the steam, entering doors at different frames makes the steam act differently, if done correctly you won't need to avoid any steam at all by doing slow jumps and such.

I'll attach a video that shows the fastest possible way of doing ceres that is known today (to do it any faster luck manipulation is needed in the opening cutscene and such) although to go this fast subpixel optimization is needed.

Hmm actually that video goes all the way till after the big purple diagonal room but It's to much hassle to fix it.

EDIT: Also it should be possible to do ceres a little faster with the new acceleration storage trick.

attachment:

CpadolfTASv3WIP.smv

hero of the day:

registered on 2007-02-05 07:46:38 pm.

hero of the day

2007-08-24 04:01:32 pm

ING-X

you did not necessarily make many mistakes in your run, but by current TAS standards your run is unoptimized. Just look at the currently published 100% run to see how improvable your run is.

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

2007-08-24 06:03:42 pm

yeah

Quote from Cpadolf:

Actually there are quite a lot of misstakes.

For starters you should really use memory watcher to determine the earliest pixels that the doors start to open so you gain maximum speed before the transition.

Also you don't use corner boosting, pushing against platforms and pressing down for 1 frame then forward for 1 frame at the right frame will push you down some pixels, and when jumping up to a platform pressing down for 1 frame then forward for 1 at the last frame where jump is pushed you get up on the platform faster. You can read all about these tricks and more at http://tasvideos.org/SuperMetroidTricks.html.

But most of all the biggest gains comes from luck manipulation of the steam, entering doors at different frames makes the steam act differently, if done correctly you won't need to avoid any steam at all by doing slow jumps and such.

I'll attach a video that shows the fastest possible way of doing ceres that is known today (to do it any faster luck manipulation is needed in the opening cutscene and such) although to go this fast subpixel optimization is needed.

Hmm actually that video goes all the way till after the big purple diagonal room but It's to much hassle to fix it.

EDIT: Also it should be possible to do ceres a little faster with the new acceleration storage trick.

...I did use corner boosting. And I've seen that page millions of times. If I did the corner boost wrong, please tell me.

[quote="Cpadolf"]Actually there are quite a lot of misstakes.

For starters you should really use memory watcher to determine the earliest pixels that the doors start to open so you gain maximum speed before the transition.

Also you don't use corner boosting, pushing against platforms and pressing down for 1 frame then forward for 1 frame at the right frame will push you down some pixels, and when jumping up to a platform pressing down for 1 frame then forward for 1 at the last frame where jump is pushed you get up on the platform faster. You can read all about these tricks and more at http://tasvideos.org/SuperMetroidTricks.html.

But most of all the biggest gains comes from luck manipulation of the steam, entering doors at different frames makes the steam act differently, if done correctly you won't need to avoid any steam at all by doing slow jumps and such.

I'll attach a video that shows the fastest possible way of doing ceres that is known today (to do it any faster luck manipulation is needed in the opening cutscene and such) although to go this fast subpixel optimization is needed.

Hmm actually that video goes all the way till after the big purple diagonal room but It's to much hassle to fix it.

EDIT: Also it should be possible to do ceres a little faster with the new acceleration storage trick.[/quote]

...I did use corner boosting. And I've seen that page millions of times. If I did the corner boost wrong, please tell me.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-08-25 04:13:40 am

Hurr Durr

Hmm, I see now that you did, but you did not do it when faling in the begining. And in the last room when climbing up to the elevator you should do a walljump at each platform when going up. Check my attached video to see where I do things differently, for example in the third room I jump much earlier thus getting down to the ground earlier.

But unless you are striving for a TAS with extreme precision that will challange the up to date ones you don't need to do it better.

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

2007-08-25 11:18:27 am

yeah

I'll probably start my TAS over again soon, but right now I'm working on practicing my real-time RBO run. I used SMSE to hack my Super Metroid ROM's SRAM so that I can fight Ridley with no suit for practice. I might even post a video showing me beating Ridley when I finally beat him.

Edit: Here's my progress on my TAS. I used a memory watcher and tried to optimize it as much as possible. Tell me what you think! Oh, and thanks to herooftheday for his awesome route; I forgot to thank him earlier. :o

attachment:

ing-xrbo.smv

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

Gender: male

view all posts by BlueGlass

2007-09-15 11:55:46 am

Every Bit Counts

What is the order of items in the easiest RBO/Suitless Route? I am thinking of doing a unrecorded run. Also, should I use Zsnes or Snes9x? And which version?

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male

BlueGlass

2007-09-15 12:01:35 pm

Get everything you can reach before fighting Ridley. After that, RBO is a (relative) breeze.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-09-15 12:02:43 pm

Hurr Durr

I guess that the easiest route for a RBO is a route which takes all helpfull powerups before LN. If your not going to record it I don't think you should be aiming for very fast completition the first time you do a RBO so just run around and pick upp all items before norfair and lower nofair.

I generally prefer Zsnes when not recording and the latest version (1.5 or something) should be used.

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

Gender: male

2007-09-15 01:28:51 pm

Every Bit Counts

Is there a good walkthrough/vid of an entire Marida run? I might have a hard time with it.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-09-15 02:07:08 pm

Hurr Durr

There is something, though it's a TAS so maybe not everything done there is possible in realtime. Also you should have grapple here so that video is probably pretty much worthless.

But if you get stuck somewhere in maridia people here could probably help you.

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

Gender: male

2007-09-15 02:34:28 pm

Every Bit Counts

Just because I'm not recording, doesn't mean that I'm not using savestates and slowdowns. Also, what is that move that he does around 1:15 to 1:25? And finally, is there another way to so the room before the mocktroids? Or do you need to do an X-Ray climb?

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

view all posts by Gaius_4

2007-09-15 04:58:52 pm

Hurr Durr

Yes there are two other ways, you can walljump up on a single wall or climb using the snails in the room. I think you can find video examples of both if you search youtube for Super Metroid Impossible.

Gaius_4:

registered on 2007-07-05 06:10:26 pm.

Gender: male

Gaius_4

2007-09-17 11:43:58 am

I tried using the snails for climbing and found out there's a catch to using them... I don't know if this would be a spoiler or not so I'm going to play it safe and treat it like one anyway. :P ...For those who want to figure out how to use the snails for themselves (and haven't watched any videos of it being done) -Don't read the spoiler.

You'll notice that the snails stop when you're facing them, but when you're standing on one that is climbing the wall... you have to work at it. Jump away from the wall a bit then turn around and come back down onto the snail. The hard part is to not stay on the snail too long (which is a very short time in itself) ...or it will go up the wall -damaging you-, then you have to start over.

ICheatAtGolf:

registered on 2007-01-04 02:21:29 pm.

view all posts by ICheatAtGolf

ICheatAtGolf

2007-09-19 08:47:36 pm

Its going to take a LOT of skill to do an RBO run on console. While possible, it definitely is not feasible nor do you have a remotely good chance of making it through LN.

I believe you can only have a max of 25 (?) supers when facing ridley in an RBO, and while I had 20 it required a ton of luck manipulation to refill on supers.

I recommend practicing on a suitless run. Many, many times over. Because an RBO is just that, except even harder. For example you'll be fighting ridley without the plasma beam and 10 less super missiles, while in a suitless run you would have both of these things.

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

view all posts by gamepro011

2007-09-20 03:07:02 pm

yeah

Quote from ICheatAtGolf:

Its going to take a LOT of skill to do an RBO run on console. While possible, it definitely is not feasible nor do you have a remotely good chance of making it through LN.

I believe you can only have a max of 25 (?) supers when facing ridley in an RBO, and while I had 20 it required a ton of luck manipulation to refill on supers.

I recommend practicing on a suitless run. Many, many times over. Because an RBO is just that, except even harder. For example you'll be fighting ridley without the plasma beam and 10 less super missiles, while in a suitless run you would have both of these things.

Actually, I've decided I'm going to do a suitless run on console instead since I'm nowhere near good enough for RBO and Suitless is basically the exact same thing. You can tell if you look at my sig. Wink

gamepro011:

registered on 2007-12-23 04:36:25 pm.

Gender: male

gamepro011

2008-01-08 02:32:05 pm

I tried a suitless run.Still working on it.I also found a video to get really early power bombs to get an extra E-Tank and Pack of SuperMissiles, grin new

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

Gender: male