A small preview of my route

Azor:

registered on 2006-06-08 07:48:44 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Tampico, Tamaulipas, Mexico

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Azor

2007-07-05 04:25:46 pm

Phazon level: 83%

First of all let me say it is incomplete, my patience wouldn't let me past torizo and even that fight i did wrong. On the run it starts fine and although my joypad isn't the same as a controller I managed to keep my route truthful. However up to the point past the long fall in old tourian it began to malfunction and I could only move to the right so I switched to the keyboard. Up to that point everything went downhill. My emulator also doesn't run a nice speed, it's either too fast or too slow and guess which speed I chose >_> I couldn't jump the mother brain chamber platforms like I normally would, I really had some problems aiming diagonally on the keyboard. I couldn't fast kill the pirates like I would and my climbing was awful. Many other mistakes appeared including the torizo fight instead. In fact I really don't know why I'm even posting this since some things were changed while other awfully done. I'm using snes9x so if anyone can help me get a decent speed I can hopefully repair my joypad and continue.

Anyway here is what I recorded, I hope it doesn't desync and be nice since I went through a true hell making it.

Thread title:

First of all let me say it is incomplete, my patience wouldn't let me past torizo and even that fight i did wrong. On the run it starts fine and although my joypad isn't the same as a controller I managed to keep my route truthful. However up to the point past the long fall in old tourian it began to malfunction and I could only move to the right so I switched to the keyboard. Up to that point everything went downhill. My emulator also doesn't run a nice speed, it's either too fast or too slow and guess which speed I chose >_> I couldn't jump the mother brain chamber platforms like I normally would, I really had some problems aiming diagonally on the keyboard. I couldn't fast kill the pirates like I would and my climbing was awful. Many other mistakes appeared including the torizo fight instead. In fact I really don't know why I'm even posting this since some things were changed while other awfully done. I'm using snes9x so if anyone can help me get a decent speed I can hopefully repair my joypad and continue.

Anyway here is what I recorded, I hope it doesn't desync and be nice since I went through a true hell making it.

attachment:

Super Metroid (JU) [!].smv

dave:

registered on 2006-01-30 10:07:51 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Pittsburgh, PA

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dave

2007-07-06 02:16:26 am

psyched to watch this

edit: desynced before exiting ceres

Azor:

registered on 2006-06-08 07:48:44 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Tampico, Tamaulipas, Mexico

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Azor

2007-07-07 11:43:24 am

Phazon level: 83%

I might hang myself >_>

moozooh:

registered on 2006-01-11 12:51:46 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Moscow

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moozooh

2007-07-08 03:44:56 pm

Doesn't desync if you uncheck every sync setting.

Ok, watched it. Seems very good.

Generic notes:
- you don't have to press R/L if you are in falling state (falling as when you run off a ledge);
- keep in mind that spinjump and falling have the same average momentum, standing jump is a bit slower;
- don't arm-pump on heavily slanted surfaces (I saw you doing it on stairs in Ceres a couple times);
- don't rely on random events too much (see below).

On the run:
1670 -- it makes more sense to jump here;
2000 -- missed jump (Ceres should be flawless in a segmented run :) );
5260 -- I prefer to enter the room at slower speed and clear the steam puff. Taking damage here saves nothing, not to mention that the puff's timing is random and you might lose time instead;
9950 -- actually, you could just hold right and fall right into the door;
18000 -- you can clear that ledge and not take damage, it isn't hard;
19850 -- you are doing it wrong. Roll near the center of the room so that Torizo would take a step towards you instead of doing the claw attack. As soon as you see him doing it, roll towards him immediately, and he will jump back. Also, try not to shoot him while he is in mid-air -- it will freeze him in place. If you still want to shoot him with power beam, do only 5 shots, and don't take damage (it will give you less missile refills).

The rest was very good, I hope you'll manage to do all that stuff in the actual run.

Doesn't desync if you uncheck every sync setting.

Ok, watched it. Seems very good.

Generic notes:
- you don't have to press R/L if you are in falling state (falling as when you run off a ledge);
- keep in mind that spinjump and falling have the same average momentum, standing jump is a bit slower;
- don't arm-pump on heavily slanted surfaces (I saw you doing it on stairs in Ceres a couple times);
- don't rely on random events too much (see below).

On the run:
1670 -- it makes more sense to jump here;
2000 -- missed jump (Ceres should be flawless in a segmented run :) );
5260 -- I prefer to enter the room at slower speed and clear the steam puff. Taking damage here saves nothing, not to mention that the puff's timing is random and you might lose time instead;
9950 -- actually, you could just hold right and fall right into the door;
18000 -- you can clear that ledge and not take damage, it isn't hard;
19850 -- you are doing it wrong. Roll near the center of the room so that Torizo would take a step towards you instead of doing the claw attack. As soon as you see him doing it, roll towards him immediately, and he will jump back. Also, try not to shoot him while he is in mid-air -- it will freeze him in place. If you still want to shoot him with power beam, do only 5 shots, and don't take damage (it will give you less missile refills).

The rest was very good, I hope you'll manage to do all that stuff in the actual run.

Azor:

registered on 2006-06-08 07:48:44 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Tampico, Tamaulipas, Mexico

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Azor

2007-07-10 04:24:45 pm

Phazon level: 83%

How can you watch what frame is the video on? I don't know where >_>

I have 2 questions for now, so according to what you said falling straight down and pressing L before landing does nothing at all? And spin jumping to start falling before(I think) from platforms is actually the same or even slower as just running until samus falls by herself?

I also want to say that I don't plan on using arm pump on my run anymore, I've been told it saves very few time and it increases my chances of missing small jumps so it isn't quite a good idea. And I just wanted to say also something about ceres, I don't really boost in the stair room, however I really felt like climbing the stairs made things slower and my emulator was really getting my nerves so I chose an easy way of getting past it. On the big room I do plan on boosting( >_> ) and since I'm making ceres a separate segment I plan on trying until I get the best time.

Also thanks for the torizo tactic, I really didn't know how to do it so I just tried to copy hotarubi a bit.

Anyway all the tricks I did on the run I can do them in console, some even better because I really feel weird playing on a keyboard with a really nasty emu speed.

How can you watch what frame is the video on? I don't know where >_>

I have 2 questions for now, so according to what you said falling straight down and pressing L before landing does nothing at all? And spin jumping to start falling before(I think) from platforms is actually the same or even slower as just running until samus falls by herself?

I also want to say that I don't plan on using arm pump on my run anymore, I've been told it saves very few time and it increases my chances of missing small jumps so it isn't quite a good idea. And I just wanted to say also something about ceres, I don't really boost in the stair room, however I really felt like climbing the stairs made things slower and my emulator was really getting my nerves so I chose an easy way of getting past it. On the big room I do plan on boosting( >_> ) and since I'm making ceres a separate segment I plan on trying until I get the best time.

Also thanks for the torizo tactic, I really didn't know how to do it so I just tried to copy hotarubi a bit.

Anyway all the tricks I did on the run I can do them in console, some even better because I really feel weird playing on a keyboard with a really nasty emu speed.

moozooh:

registered on 2006-01-11 12:51:46 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Moscow

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moozooh

2007-07-10 05:28:33 pm

Quote from Azor:

How can you watch what frame is the video on? I don't know where >_>

I'm not sure if it's the same in the pre-1.43 versions of Snes9x, and I don't know what exact version you're using, but usually it's period (.) button. There's also a customize hotkeys menu somewhere where you can reassign it to something else. And to avoid unneeded desyncs and possible version incompatibilities, use this version. I have started a new smv using this version where you left off: here. If you haven't continued your run yet, you may as well use this smv to ensure maximum compatibility.

Quote from Azor:

so according to what you said falling straight down and pressing L before landing does nothing at all?

Yes. Only spinjump and aiming down jump reduce Samus's hitbox.

Quote from Azor:

And spin jumping to start falling before(I think) from platforms is actually the same or even slower as just running until samus falls by herself?

A quick rule of thumb is: spinjump off a ledge only if the primary objective is vertical position (such as when going down or jumping onto a higher ledge), in all other cases it's safe to fall.

Quote from Azor:

I also want to say that I don't plan on using arm pump on my run anymore, I've been told it saves very few time and it increases my chances of missing small jumps so it isn't quite a good idea.

Two notes:
1) it really saves considerable amount of time in certain places (see example two posts above).
2) you won't miss a jump if you're in a room you don't have to jump in (certain Brinstar and Norfair rooms).
You aren't obliged to using it, but I don't recommend ignoring this trick entirely for one sole reason: if a single-segment run uses it, there's basically no reason not to use it in segmented one, either.

Quote from Azor:

Anyway all the tricks I did on the run I can do them in console, some even better because I really feel weird playing on a keyboard with a really nasty emu speed.

That's very good to hear, I'm eagerly awaiting your run. I don't want to make preemptive predictions on the final time, but I'm more than sure you'll be able to show 'em all who's the boss. :)

By the way, if you feel like experimenting further with in-depth mechanics of the game, I can help. Keep in mind that Hotarubi has researched the tech stuff really well prior to making his run.

[quote="Azor"]How can you watch what frame is the video on? I don't know where >_>[/quote]
I'm not sure if it's the same in the pre-1.43 versions of Snes9x, and I don't know what exact version you're using, but usually it's period (.) button. There's also a customize hotkeys menu somewhere where you can reassign it to something else. And to avoid unneeded desyncs and possible version incompatibilities, use [url=http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535&start=106]this version[/url]. I have started a new smv using this version where you left off: [url=http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1823470134/testrun.smv]here[/url]. If you haven't continued your run yet, you may as well use this smv to ensure maximum compatibility.

[quote="Azor"]so according to what you said falling straight down and pressing L before landing does nothing at all?[/quote]
Yes. Only spinjump and aiming down jump reduce Samus's hitbox.

[quote="Azor"]And spin jumping to start falling before(I think) from platforms is actually the same or even slower as just running until samus falls by herself?[/quote]
A quick rule of thumb is: spinjump off a ledge only if the primary objective is vertical position (such as when going down or jumping onto a higher ledge), in all other cases it's safe to fall.

[quote="Azor"]I also want to say that I don't plan on using arm pump on my run anymore, I've been told it saves very few time and it increases my chances of missing small jumps so it isn't quite a good idea.[/quote]
Two notes:
1) it really saves considerable amount of time in certain places (see example two posts above).
2) you won't miss a jump if you're in a room you don't have to jump in (certain Brinstar and Norfair rooms).
You aren't obliged to using it, but I don't recommend ignoring this trick entirely for one sole reason: if a single-segment run uses it, there's basically no reason not to use it in segmented one, either.

[quote="Azor"]Anyway all the tricks I did on the run I can do them in console, some even better because I really feel weird playing on a keyboard with a really nasty emu speed.[/quote]
That's very good to hear, I'm eagerly awaiting your run. I don't want to make preemptive predictions on the final time, but I'm more than sure you'll be able to show 'em all who's the boss. :)

By the way, if you feel like experimenting further with in-depth mechanics of the game, I can help. Keep in mind that Hotarubi has researched the tech stuff really well prior to making his run.

Azor:

registered on 2006-06-08 07:48:44 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Tampico, Tamaulipas, Mexico

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Azor

2007-07-10 07:44:22 pm

Phazon level: 83%

Any help would be appreciated because I know nothing at all about the mechanics itself >_>

So far this is what I know:
-Pressing L or R are good for reaching higher platforms by landing earlier
-to get fast echoes the game checks everytime the front foot is about to hit the ground or something near it
-arm pump increases your horizontal position by something like 1 pixel(I re-plan on using this in places such as the speed booster chamber)
-I know how to mockball but no why though
-I know damage boosts
-I know how the turn around animation helps clear obstacles and crumble blocks faster
-I don't know how but i manage to pull a very fast fall in the pre-kreaid room with the flying enemies(pardon my ignorance)
-I know many major strategies to aid myself like fast charge, phantoon and draygon 2 rounds and mroe stuff like that.

I would really appreciate help on small details while moving generally to save time, small tricks like early landing when climbing platforms above and things like that would be very appreciated.

Edit: I just saw my run with the frames(damn i play worse on emu >_>) I just wanted to say something:
2000 was a missed jump but I left it in there so I could get confirmation on if it was faster
9950 was on purpose, I do that because if I fall straight I end up in the left elevation of the platform and sometimes I miss the jump to the next one and onto the fall so I land on that ledge first.

Any help would be appreciated because I know nothing at all about the mechanics itself >_>

So far this is what I know:
-Pressing L or R are good for reaching higher platforms by landing earlier
-to get fast echoes the game checks everytime the front foot is about to hit the ground or something near it
-arm pump increases your horizontal position by something like 1 pixel(I re-plan on using this in places such as the speed booster chamber)
-I know how to mockball but no why though
-I know damage boosts
-I know how the turn around animation helps clear obstacles and crumble blocks faster
-I don't know how but i manage to pull a very fast fall in the pre-kreaid room with the flying enemies(pardon my ignorance)
-I know many major strategies to aid myself like fast charge, phantoon and draygon 2 rounds and mroe stuff like that.

I would really appreciate help on small details while moving generally to save time, small tricks like early landing when climbing platforms above and things like that would be very appreciated.

Edit: I just saw my run with the frames(damn i play worse on emu >_>) I just wanted to say something:
2000 was a missed jump but I left it in there so I could get confirmation on if it was faster
9950 was on purpose, I do that because if I fall straight I end up in the left elevation of the platform and sometimes I miss the jump to the next one and onto the fall so I land on that ledge first.

moozooh:

registered on 2006-01-11 12:51:46 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Moscow

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moozooh

2007-07-11 03:38:39 pm

Quote from Azor:

Any help would be appreciated because I know nothing at all about the mechanics itself >_>

Ok, well, the fastest way to understand how things work is to see the hidden variables -- such as momentum, ingame timer, boss health and so on. The easiest way to see them is memory watch tool. Looks approximately like this. I started using it for TASing, but it helped me alot in unassisted runs as well (I can do most major tricks now -- not very consistently, though). Play around with it opened near the emulator window, or plan tricks with it. Very handy all around.

Additionaly, make sure you know all this stuff. Not everything will be useful to you, but some definitely will. Japanese Super Metroid community, which Hotarubi and catnap222 are a part of, have a similar wiki (which is more detailed is some aspects but slightly outdated as of now).

Also, on the subject of your route, are you planning to end segment 1 in Norfair after taking Wave beam? I just played a bit today with slight slowdown and multiple rewinds (wasn't recording, though), and arrived at the save room in norfair at exactly 9 minutes ingame. Provided the playthrough was a lot more clean than I would expect from unassisted play, I would estimate about a minute of leeway. That being said, if you manage to save there with a very high 9:xx, that would be just perfect.

[quote="Azor"]Any help would be appreciated because I know nothing at all about the mechanics itself >_>[/quote]
Ok, well, the fastest way to understand how things work is to see the hidden variables -- such as momentum, ingame timer, boss health and so on. The easiest way to see them is [url=http://moozooh.diinoweb.com/files/stuff/s9xw.zip]memory watch[/url] tool. Looks approximately [url=http://moozooh.diinoweb.com/files/SM/snap0720.png]like this[/url]. I started using it for TASing, but it helped me alot in unassisted runs as well (I can do most major tricks now -- not very consistently, though). Play around with it opened near the emulator window, or plan tricks with it. Very handy all around.

Additionaly, make sure you know [url=http://tasvideos.org/SuperMetroidTricks.html]all this stuff[/url]. Not everything will be useful to you, but some definitely will. Japanese Super Metroid community, which Hotarubi and catnap222 are a part of, have a [url=http://www9.atwiki.jp/catnap222/]similar wiki[/url] (which is more detailed is some aspects but slightly outdated as of now).

Also, on the subject of your route, are you planning to end segment 1 in Norfair after taking Wave beam? I just played a bit today with slight slowdown and multiple rewinds (wasn't recording, though), and arrived at the save room in norfair at exactly 9 minutes ingame. Provided the playthrough was a lot more clean than I would expect from unassisted play, I would estimate about a minute of leeway. That being said, if you manage to save there with a very high 9:xx, that would be just perfect.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

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Cpadolf

2007-07-11 05:58:37 pm

Hurr Durr

A much more optimal savepoint would be at red brinstar (with a save time of 10 being needed IIRC) because the randomness of phantoon much much time could be saved by manipulating his patterns. Although do NOT save at both those places because then all time saved on phantoon will be lost from saving.

Going all the way to red brinstar before saving is a huge pain though.

Azor:

registered on 2006-06-08 07:48:44 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Tampico, Tamaulipas, Mexico

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Azor

2007-07-11 07:38:52 pm

Phazon level: 83%

My route is in 10 minutes(best) on red brinstar, not norfair, before climbing the elevator. I save there because the maridia shinespark is a bit harder hotarubi way and I want to keep the super missile I used to use before wrecked ship. Also this way I can manipulate phantoon to get an insanely fast time considering I plan on doing just 2 rounds.

But yes going all the way to red brinstar is a big pain because it is the longest segment and some stuff needs to be done more accurately.

moozooh:

registered on 2006-01-11 12:51:46 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Moscow

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moozooh

2007-07-11 08:56:30 pm

Well, I'm asking because that save room in Norfair is by far the only one you'll be unavoidably passing through by that point (and still not much before Phantoon). Another good thing is that there will be no hard parts just before the save. First segment is already rather long and full of small annoying tricks (a lot of walljumps and mockballs and half a dozen of easy to screw up damage boosts), so I see this as a good place to save. But it's up to you, of course.
However, now that I think of it, getting :10 at RB save is probably even better than :09 at Norfair's.

On a related note, you know what's funniest about this run? It's that Azor's test smv is only 6 seconds slower than this old TAS by the moment they both reach Torizo. And guess what, sub-31 actually looks very possible now.

Why do I think it's possible to tie the TAS's time? Well, for the record, Teri reaches the RB save room at 9:45 without having collected the Ice beam (!). All in all, he lost about a whole minute on boss fights alone -- that is compared to the current unassisted standards; he also lost something like 10-15 seconds on sucky route. Besides, this run is so old that 99% of the tricks there are doable on console (except a couple damage boosts), which makes the comparison a lot easier -- the only thing that's better there is precision. So according to my calculations (which account for the time needed to enter/exit save rooms), Azor has ~80-85 seconds of precision leeway to be able to reach sub-31... I will giggle like a school girl if he manages to achieve it. :) This will truly be a triumph of unassisted play.

Well, I'm asking because that save room in Norfair is by far the only one you'll be unavoidably passing [i]through[/i] by that point (and still not much before Phantoon). Another good thing is that there will be no hard parts just before the save. First segment is already rather long and full of small annoying tricks (a lot of walljumps and mockballs and half a dozen of easy to screw up damage boosts), so I see this as a good place to save. But it's up to you, of course. 
However, now that I think of it, getting :10 at RB save is probably even better than :09 at Norfair's.

On a related note, you know what's funniest about this run? It's that Azor's test smv is only 6 seconds slower than [url=http://tasvideos.org/245M.html]this old TAS[/url] by the moment they both reach Torizo. And guess what, sub-31 actually looks very possible now.

Why do I think it's possible to tie the TAS's time? Well, for the record, Teri reaches the RB save room at 9:45 without having collected the Ice beam (!). All in all, he lost about a whole minute on boss fights alone -- that is compared to the current [i]unassisted[/i] standards; he also lost something like 10-15 seconds on sucky route. Besides, this run is so old that 99% of the tricks there are doable on console (except a couple damage boosts), which makes the comparison a lot easier -- the only thing that's better there is precision. So according to my calculations (which account for the time needed to enter/exit save rooms), Azor has ~80-85 seconds of precision leeway to be able to reach sub-31... I will giggle like a school girl if he manages to achieve it. :) This will truly be a triumph of unassisted play.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

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072

2007-07-11 10:00:32 pm

coral to complement blue

Quote from Moozooh:

except a couple damage boosts

Which ones?

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

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Cpadolf

2007-07-12 03:37:48 am

Hurr Durr

Quote from moozooh:

On a related note, you know what's funniest about this run? It's that Azor's test smv is only 6 seconds slower than this old TAS by the moment they both reach Torizo. And guess what, sub-31 actually looks very possible now.

But then again Azor did use 130+ rerecords... you do realise that?
Besides, how much faster then hotarubi is it up tp this point?

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

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Tonski

2007-07-12 05:48:03 am

Quote from moozooh:

I will giggle like a school girl if he manages to achieve it. :)

AZOR YOU HAVE TO SUCCEED!!!
Shocked

Azor:

registered on 2006-06-08 07:48:44 pm.

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Location: Tampico, Tamaulipas, Mexico

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Azor

2007-07-12 08:12:23 pm

Phazon level: 83%

Yeah but the reason I re-recorded was because it is hard as hell for me to play on the keyboard, asides the 3 keys at the same time restriction I can't find a way to put all buttons I use in a comfortable way.

My emu runs a bit slow also so part of the timing is harder this way to what I'm used to and there is also the old mother brain chamber where I couldn't jump as I do and in the end got frustrated and used an alternate method.

Sub 31 would be awesome, I wonder if I can achieve it.

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2007-07-13 02:48:03 am

Azor, just make sure to have "Auto Frame Skip" enabled, and of course 100% Emulation speed. It should usually be set by default when you use the emulator the first time ever, but if not, just go in the menu to "Input" ---> "Customize Hotkeys", and set your wished keys for "Speed + / -" and for "Skip + / -" to toggle everything you need regarding emulation speed.

Also I highly recommend to use one of this two emulators, if you don't do so already:

Snes9x v1.43-improvement9
The most stable in movie recording, and most tested version so far.

Snes9x v1.51
The newest and official version today, but not tested that much yet. Should work well on Super Metroid though afaik.

It's very important that you play on 100% emulation speed to not lose the feeling of the real thing, so I hope you take a little time to fix it, for your own good.

Azor, just make sure to have "Auto Frame Skip" enabled, and of course 100% Emulation speed. It should usually be set by default when you use the emulator the first time ever, but if not, just go in the menu to [b]"Input" ---> "Customize Hotkeys"[/b], and set your wished keys for [b]"Speed + / -"[/b] and for [b]"Skip + / -"[/b] to toggle everything you need regarding emulation speed.

Also I highly recommend to use one of this two emulators, if you don't do so already:

[url=http://www.filespace.org/nitsuja/snes9xw-improvement9.zip]Snes9x v1.43-improvement9[/url]
The most stable in movie recording, and most tested version so far.

[url=http://files.ipherswipsite.com/snes9x/snes9x-1.51-win32.zip]Snes9x v1.51[/url]
The newest and official version today, but not tested that much yet. Should work well on Super Metroid though afaik.

It's very important that you play on 100% emulation speed to not lose the feeling of the real thing, so I hope you take a little time to fix it, for your own good.

Azor:

registered on 2006-06-08 07:48:44 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Tampico, Tamaulipas, Mexico

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Azor

2007-07-13 11:40:24 pm

Phazon level: 83%

Thanks Saturn, I will really try it. I don't know much about the mechanics itself so I would really enjoy some help regarding my route.

While I'm not really aiming for my best in game time I will definitely try to make the run 100% faithful to what I try on console and of course being more precise because I move way better with my good old controller.