A modest proposal

KennyMan666:

is in the group Global Moderator.

registered on 2004-02-28 08:24:37 am.

Gender: male

Location: Otokojuku

view all posts by KennyMan666

KennyMan666

2010-11-13 07:43:39 pm

Viking

Avatar!

Yes, this is still largely about ~~Wonder Garden~~ the anime thread. Because srsly. But it does go out to everyone using this forum software.

So, ark is still trying to convince me that I should just view it as an IRC channel. See, even if I did... that's not how I IRC.

A longer post, such as this, obviously isn't something that looks like something you would say in casual conversation with friends. Shorter posts in active topics, however, might work like that. When you speak, you have "invisible" punctuation, which is inserted by making pauses of varying length in what you're saying. Now, for added circular reasoning in this argument, when I read writing on the internet, especially on forums and the like, different punctuation implies pauses of different length in my head. A comma is a short pause. A period is a longer one. A linebreak is even longer, and a new paragraph is taking a slightly deeper breath before continuing.

And the longest pause in this environment would be the pause between one post and the other, even if you are the one making two posts in rapid succession.

When you talk, and you think you've finished your thought, you don't make a long pause before you add onto it. But that is how I keep reading those threads. Even in chat mode. It's still not an IRC channel.

So, to the point.

I'm not asking for much. Hell, I'm not even expecting anything, but when did that last stop me? (A MAN CAN DREAM!) I'm not asking for you to stop doing what you're doing entirely. I'm not asking you to stop chatting. By all means, go ahead - once the ignore function starts doing what it should be doing, I'm not even going to see it.

But even so... all I am asking is to put in a little more effort to form a coherent thought. To take a few more seconds before hitting "Post" and realize there is more you want to add. Yes, the auto-editing will go a long way towards keeping one single coherent thought to one post... but as it appears, that's not going to happen for a while.

(and because my current quest in life is to explain to ark that he's wrong, and because this is my thread, I will moderate it. Double posts will not be tolerated.)

Thread title:

Yes, this is still largely about [s]Wonder Garden[/s] the anime thread. Because srsly. But it does go out to everyone using this forum software.

So, ark is still trying to convince me that I should just view it as an IRC channel. See, even if I [i]did[/i]... that's not how I IRC.

A longer post, such as this, obviously isn't something that looks like something you would say in casual conversation with friends. Shorter posts in active topics, however, might work like that. When you speak, you have "invisible" punctuation, which is inserted by making pauses of varying length in what you're saying. Now, for added circular reasoning in this argument, when I read writing on the internet, especially on forums and the like, different punctuation implies pauses of different length in my head. A comma is a short pause. A period is a longer one. A linebreak is even longer, and a new paragraph is taking a slightly deeper breath before continuing.

And the longest pause in this environment would be the pause between [i]one post and the other[/i], even if you are the one making two posts in rapid succession.

When you talk, and you think you've finished your thought, you don't make a long pause before you add onto it. But that is how I keep reading those threads. Even in chat mode. It's still not an IRC channel.

So, to the point.

I'm not asking for much. Hell, I'm not even expecting anything, but when did that last stop me? (A MAN CAN DREAM!) I'm not asking for you to stop doing what you're doing entirely. I'm not asking you to stop chatting. By all means, go ahead - once the ignore function starts doing what it should be doing, I'm not even going to see it.

But even so... all I am asking is to put in a little more effort to form a coherent thought. To take a few more seconds before hitting "Post" and realize there is more you want to add. Yes, the auto-editing will go a long way towards keeping one single coherent thought to one post... but as it appears, that's not going to happen for a while.

(and because my current quest in life is to explain to ark that he's wrong, and because this is my thread, I [i]will[/i] moderate it. Double posts will not be tolerated.)

arkarian:

is in the group Administrator.

registered on 2004-09-01 04:15:32 pm.

Gender: male

Location: ellicott city, md, usa

view all posts by arkarian

arkarian

2010-11-13 07:50:16 pm

mindfulness

fully erect

sorry, this is not "your" thread and the double post thing has been removed from the rules.

it sort of irks me when someone who barely even uses this forum suddenly thinks they get to dictate what other people do. i mean, that's cool, it's not just really how things have worked here for a long time. seems like for the past several months we've just let people do whatever and it's been p. good.

taiga forum is something totally new and i don't think it's up to anyone to decide how everyone gets to use it, especially on this forum where it's like tf testing central. have to let things evolve as they may.

KennyMan666:

is in the group Global Moderator.

registered on 2004-02-28 08:24:37 am.

Gender: male

Location: Otokojuku

view all posts by KennyMan666

KennyMan666

Edit history:

KennyMan666: 2010-11-13 09:01:43 pm

2010-11-13 08:23:52 pm

Viking

Avatar!

I'm not really trying to tell people how to use it. What I'm doing, apart from here merely putting out a minor suggestion I never really thought would be done anyway, is that I'm expressing a few thoughts, explaining my views formed by several impressions I have gotten from the software.

I believe I have said it several times, I think Taiga is a good thing. It's a great piece of software, obviously still in development, and you're fairly rapidly fixing issues that are found in it. m2k2 is your testing ground, we're your beta testers, and I like it. You know I will gladly tell you about everything I think you should fix up.

And this is a bit of an extension of that. Taiga is a new thing. Nothing like it has to my knowledge graced the internet before. Thus, the beta testing is not only of the technological aspect, but also of... everything else that comes from it.

Don't get me wrong. Even as a mod, in this kind of case, I'm not trying to be any sort of authority on how people should to use the software. Far from it. I'm presenting my views, my ideas on how I, in an optimal world where the sky is blue and the grass is green and cotton candy grows on trees, would most like to see it being used.

And of course, mine is just one of a lot of such views. See it as the view of a very casual user of it, who still cares more than he actually should. See it as the view of someone who thinks it's important to express this kind of view to the developers of the software, who he thinks did a great job and saw a lot of possibilities with it but obviously could not predict how every type of user would adopt and use it.

See it as the view of a user who did not expect that anything real would come from making it, but nevertheless wanted to make his point. As the developers of the software, you should be interested in every view. In fact, the only reason I'm continuing doing this is because I know you listen and reply, often quickly, which is definitely worth praise.

As a footnote, it's fairly interesting and a little amusing - if it weren't for all these things I, personally, in my own views, find to be not up to my standards, I wouldn't be making these long argument posts. And I really like doing them. In fact, I think it's making things come full circle - it was on this very forum, many years ago, that I partook (is that a word?) in serious discussion on a forum, with longer, thought-out arguments. Good ol' Prime/Queen thread.

I'm not really trying to tell people how to use it. What I'm doing, apart from here merely putting out a minor suggestion I never really thought would be done anyway, is that I'm expressing a few thoughts, explaining my views formed by several impressions I have gotten from the software.

I believe I have said it several times, I think Taiga is a good thing. It's a great piece of software, obviously still in development, and you're fairly rapidly fixing issues that are found in it. m2k2 is your testing ground, we're your beta testers, and I like it. You know I will gladly tell you about everything I think you should fix up.

And this is a bit of an extension of that. Taiga is a [i]new[/i] thing. Nothing like it has to my knowledge graced the internet before. Thus, the beta testing is not only of the technological aspect, but also of... everything else that comes from it.

Don't get me wrong. Even as a mod, in this kind of case, I'm not trying to be any sort of authority on how people should to use the software. Far from it. I'm presenting my views, my ideas on how I, in an optimal world where the sky is blue and the grass is green and cotton candy grows on trees, would most like to see it being used.

And of course, mine is just one of a [i]lot[/i] of such views. See it as the view of a very casual user of it, who still cares more than he actually should. See it as the view of someone who thinks it's important to express this kind of view to the developers of the software, who he thinks did a great job and saw a lot of possibilities with it but obviously could not predict how every type of user would adopt and use it.

See it as the view of a user who did not expect that anything real would come from making it, but nevertheless wanted to make his point. As the developers of the software, you should be interested in every view. In fact, the only reason I'm continuing doing this is because I [i]know[/i] you listen and reply, often quickly, which is definitely worth praise.

As a footnote, it's fairly interesting and a little amusing - if it weren't for all these things I, personally, in my own views, find to be not up to my standards, I wouldn't be making these long argument posts. And I really like doing them. In fact, I think it's making things come full circle - it was on this very forum, many years ago, that I partook (is that a word?) in serious discussion on a forum, with longer, thought-out arguments. Good ol' Prime/Queen thread.

Poision Envy:

registered on 2008-10-25 08:56:26 pm.

Gender: female

Location: I'm outta place, I'm in outer space

view all posts by Poision Envy

Poision Envy

Edit history:

Poision Envy: 2010-11-13 08:59:28 pm

Poision Envy: 2010-11-13 08:59:25 pm

Poision Envy: 2010-11-13 08:58:07 pm

2010-11-13 08:57:21 pm

Death to skinfags, sieg heil.

Kenny I understand where you're coming from, and I agree it is really annoying when a post that could easily be one post gets fragmented into like, 5. That is really the only thing though, and that would be fixed with the auto-combining thing.

Different threads have different moods to them though. The animu thread is really just for casual talk. The social topic seems to be for more forum-ish posting. And a topic such as this is for two-paragraph-long serious posts. It seems like you want all threads to be less like casual talk and more like how "real" forums are. The best solution to this would be to just ignore the more casual chatty threads. I suggested in the anime thread, after you posted, that someone should make a "REAL anime thread" which focuses primarily on anime and is enforced to stay that way.

So really in the end, all I'm trying to say, is if threads like the anime thread annoy you, all you have to do is ignore it, right? Nobody is going to make you read it or anything. Like for example, I avoid all the metroid sections on here, because I don't actually really care much for speedrunning metroid games or anything like that.

EDIT: sorry if some parts seem worded weird. I'd type some of this up, do something else, then come back to it. Since I know it would bug you if I posted this in 6 different segments, I just put all my thoughts into one thing.

Kenny I understand where you're coming from, and I agree it is really annoying when a post that could easily be one post gets fragmented into like, 5. That is really the only thing though, and that would be fixed with the auto-combining thing.

Different threads have different moods to them though. The animu thread is really just for casual talk. The social topic seems to be for more forum-ish posting. And a topic such as this is for two-paragraph-long serious posts. It seems like you want all threads to be less like casual talk and more like how "real" forums are. The best solution to this would be to just ignore the more casual chatty threads. I suggested in the anime thread, after you posted, that someone should make a "REAL anime thread" which focuses primarily on anime and is enforced to stay that way.

So really in the end, all I'm trying to say, is if threads like the anime thread annoy you, all you have to do is ignore it, right? Nobody is going to make you read it or anything. Like for example, I avoid all the metroid sections on here, because I don't actually really care much for speedrunning metroid games or anything like that.

EDIT: sorry if some parts seem worded weird. I'd type some of this up, do something else, then come back to it. Since I know it would bug you if I posted this in 6 different segments, I just put all my thoughts into one thing.

KennyMan666:

is in the group Global Moderator.

registered on 2004-02-28 08:24:37 am.

Gender: male

Location: Otokojuku

view all posts by KennyMan666

KennyMan666

2010-11-13 09:33:53 pm

Viking

Avatar!

My problems with the animu thread (you know - renaming it to that would solve just about everything because that makes it utterly clear that it's not actually for serious anime talk (anymore) while still having essentially the name your little posse has adopted) are two, and that's not counting all the problems I have with the actual contents in it: The misleading name and the fact that (to answer "all you have to do is ignore it, right?") ignoring it, which I'm of course doing, doesn't remove it from the index view, this not at all solving the problem of making it appear that it's the only thread in the entire Boardwalk that's ever posted in. I'd ignore the taigawatching threads too, but same thing there, they still wouldn't show me what ACTUALLY goes on in the Boardwalk beyond the chat.

I mean, I've been using lots of forums for many many years. I've gotten used to a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff that ark is now telling me does not apply to Taiga, that I should view it as IRC, but - no matter what, even using what's probably the least "forum-y" skin, to me, the presentation of it still makes me view it as a forum more than anything. I still use several other forums where all those other things apply, and call me an old-timer, but I'm just not getting used to it, I don't feel comfortable making several posts in rapid succession. Of course, I understand what Taiga can do, and how it's being used. I'm not asking for each post to be a well thought out argument with several points - all I'm really asking (actually, less "asking" and more "hoping") for is for one post to mean one coherent thought. Hell, it took a very long time for me to stop using proper punctuation for everything I said in IRC! And to this day, I STILL always make sure to capitalize the first letter of all my sentences and all names. This goes for every IM client I use, and oftentimes I try to make sure that I've formed my entire thought before I hit enter. And spacing one thought out for more than one line in IRC seems far more natural than it would here, even with chat mode. So in the end, I think that when ark is telling me to "think of it as an IRC channel" - he's telling me that based on his view of IRC and instant messaging, but I can't help but interpreting it based on my view of IRC and instant messaging, making the premise of his argument flawed in my head because we're not seeing the main idea of it from the same angle.

...yeah, I... kinda lost my train of thought here, so I'm going to bed now. Also, ark, give me more things to disagree with.

My problems with the animu thread (you know - renaming it to that would solve just about everything because that makes it utterly clear that it's not actually for serious anime talk (anymore) while still having essentially the name your little posse has adopted) are two, and that's not counting all the problems I have with the actual contents in it: The misleading name and the fact that (to answer "all you have to do is ignore it, right?") ignoring it, which I'm of course doing, [i]doesn't remove it from the index view[/i], this not at all solving the problem of making it appear that it's the only thread in the entire Boardwalk that's ever posted in. I'd ignore the taigawatching threads too, but same thing there, they still wouldn't show me what ACTUALLY goes on in the Boardwalk beyond the chat.

I mean, I've been using lots of forums for many many years. I've gotten used to a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff that ark is now telling me does not apply to Taiga, that I should view it as IRC, but - no matter what, even using what's probably the least "forum-y" skin, to me, the presentation of it still makes me view it as a forum more than anything. I still use several other forums where all those other things apply, and call me an old-timer, but I'm just not getting used to it, I don't feel comfortable making several posts in rapid succession. Of course, I understand what Taiga can do, and how it's being used. I'm not asking for each post to be a well thought out argument with several points - all I'm [i]really[/i] asking (actually, less "asking" and more "hoping") for is for one post to mean one coherent thought. Hell, it took a very long time for me to stop using proper punctuation for everything I said in IRC! And to this day, I STILL always make sure to capitalize the first letter of all my sentences and all names. This goes for every IM client I use, and oftentimes I try to make sure that I've formed my entire thought before I hit enter. And spacing one thought out for more than one line in IRC seems far more natural than it would here, even with chat mode. So in the end, I think that when ark is telling me to "think of it as an IRC channel" - he's telling me that based on [i]his[/i] view of IRC and instant messaging, but I can't help but interpreting it based on [i]my[/i] view of IRC and instant messaging, making the premise of his argument flawed in my head because we're not seeing the main idea of it from the same angle.

...yeah, I... kinda lost my train of thought here, so I'm going to bed now. Also, ark, give me more things to disagree with.

Prime Hunter:

registered on 2004-08-09 06:04:32 pm.

Gender: male

Location: USA

view all posts by Prime Hunter

Prime Hunter

2010-11-13 10:15:07 pm

This is still the only forum I've really been a part of since I first joined six years ago, and I have similar feelings to Kenny as far as proper English and sentences go. I have a hard time NOT writing out a sentence this way no matter what format I'm in, not that I use IRC or IMs that much, if at all. It's been ingrained in me over time, and to be honest, trying to read a handful of one or two word posts in order to understand what's being said by one person is not something I'd get used to fast. It drives me nuts when I'm reading longer posts on other forums (even if I don't post there) and I continue to see so many people completely ignore someone simply because they feel there's too much written out and that they can't be bothered to take a minute to read through it. (So basically all of those tl:dr responses) I guess I'm just not used to the fast pace environment that has come up with this generation, since I don't use text messages either. I'm more comfortable with taking as much time as I need to in order to speak my mind.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that not everyone sees things the same way, and there are some of us that will take longer to adapt to things than others. I do understand what Poision is saying in that not every topic is going to have the same mood to it, and obviously they shouldn't be that way. But expecting ALL of the conversations on this forum to be one or the other is not going to work out that well.

This is still the only forum I've really been a part of since I first joined six years ago, and I have similar feelings to Kenny as far as proper English and sentences go. I have a hard time NOT writing out a sentence this way no matter what format I'm in, not that I use IRC or IMs that much, if at all. It's been ingrained in me over time, and to be honest, trying to read a handful of one or two word posts in order to understand what's being said by one person is not something I'd get used to fast. It drives me nuts when I'm reading longer posts on other forums (even if I don't post there) and I continue to see so many people completely ignore someone simply because they feel there's too much written out and that they can't be bothered to take a minute to read through it. (So basically all of those tl:dr responses) I guess I'm just not used to the fast pace environment that has come up with this generation, since I don't use text messages either. I'm more comfortable with taking as much time as I need to in order to speak my mind.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that not everyone sees things the same way, and there are some of us that will take longer to adapt to things than others. I do understand what Poision is saying in that not every topic is going to have the same mood to it, and obviously they shouldn't be that way. But expecting ALL of the conversations on this forum to be one or the other is not going to work out that well.

DJGrenola:

is in the group Global Moderator.

registered on 2004-10-11 03:16:49 am.

Location: ein Banning

view all posts by DJGrenola

DJGrenola

Edit history:

DJGrenola: 2010-11-14 07:29:30 pm

2010-11-14 07:29:10 pm

urmom

urdad

all blame should be laid at the feet of those who decided they'd rather use the anime thread than talk on irc. and I wasn't one of them.

horscht(i):

registered on 2007-02-19 06:19:27 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Germany

view all posts by horscht(i)

horscht(i)

2010-11-17 03:55:13 pm

defrag in progress

if you`re annoyed by the anime thread, then why just not reading it?
Until now I was not aware the anime thread is a pool of anger to some people. Even though it most of the times appears in the index view, it is a rather easy of life`s challenges to simply ignore it.
On the other hand side I agree that the thread title is misleading. I never bothered clicking on it, because I don`t like anime that much. Now I know where all the social talk is going on. Guess, this is just the other way around than for most other people here. :)
Also, there is actually a social topic where such irc-like posts would fit much better.

In the end it breaks down to what ark said: It just evolve that way.

KennyMan666:

is in the group Global Moderator.

registered on 2004-02-28 08:24:37 am.

Gender: male

Location: Otokojuku

view all posts by KennyMan666

KennyMan666

2010-11-17 06:15:18 pm

Viking

Avatar!

I don't read it, and that's the thing. I have it ignored. Which means absolutely nothing, because effectively, the only thing ignore does is make the little icon next to it never change from gray to green. Every OTHER update to it is visible everywhere, including the main index, which is what I actually wanted it to go away from. It's not anger as much as it's annoyance. Partly at that, partly at the fact that it has the worst name ever (please. Rename it. "animu thread" is the perfect name for it. Do that.) and partly since the little elitist (disclaimer: exaggeration based on how one person (you know who I mean) has been talking about it to me outside of it) clique that has formed within it can't see what's wrong with it.

All I'm really asking is for a thread to get a name that actually reflects what's it's about and for people to take an extra second or two to make sure they've formed a coherent thought before they post. I'm not trying to stop the evolution of how Taiga is being used, I'm not telling anyone how to do anything (if I did, I'd be all I'M A MOD AND YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT I SAY. And that would be wrong.), I'm presenting my arguments and making suggestions based on them, in hopes that people will see my point.

Sometimes it works.

Also, why do I keep making these posts right when I'm about to go to bed?

I [i]don't[/i] read it, and that's the thing. I have it ignored. Which means [i]absolutely nothing[/i], because effectively, the only thing ignore does is make the little icon next to it never change from gray to green. Every OTHER update to it is visible everywhere, including the [i]main index[/i], which is what I actually wanted it to go away from. It's not anger as much as it's annoyance. Partly at that, partly at the fact that it has the worst name ever (please. Rename it. "animu thread" is the perfect name for it. Do that.) and partly since the little elitist (disclaimer: exaggeration based on how one person (you know who I mean) has been talking about it to me outside of it) clique that has formed within it can't see what's wrong with it.

All I'm [i]really[/i] asking is for a thread to get a name that actually reflects what's it's about and for people to take an extra second or two to make sure they've formed a coherent thought before they post. I'm not trying to stop the evolution of how Taiga is being used, I'm not telling anyone how to do anything (if I did, I'd be all I'M A MOD AND YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT I SAY. [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AndThatWouldBeWrong]And that would be wrong.[/url]), I'm presenting my arguments and making suggestions based on them, in hopes that people will see my point.

Sometimes it works.

Also, why do I keep making these posts right when I'm about to go to bed?

Poision Envy:

registered on 2008-10-25 08:56:26 pm.

Gender: female

Location: I'm outta place, I'm in outer space

view all posts by Poision Envy

Poision Envy

2010-11-17 06:20:35 pm

Death to skinfags, sieg heil.

Quote from KennyMan666:

I don't read it, and that's the thing. I have it ignored. Which means absolutely nothing, because effectively, the only thing ignore does is make the little icon next to it never change from gray to green.

It makes it so it doesn't show up in your unread thing. Why not just click on unread, and sit there instead of the main index? It would do exactly what you want <.<

arkarian:

is in the group Administrator.

registered on 2004-09-01 04:15:32 pm.

Gender: male

Location: ellicott city, md, usa

view all posts by arkarian

arkarian

2010-11-17 06:26:54 pm

mindfulness

fully erect

yeah i guess i assume most people just click in tabs or use unread view. actually browing the forum is so passé.

KennyMan666:

is in the group Global Moderator.

registered on 2004-02-28 08:24:37 am.

Gender: male

Location: Otokojuku

view all posts by KennyMan666

KennyMan666

2010-11-18 03:03:52 am

Viking

Avatar!

You know that when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of u and mption.

I don't know. To me it feels a bit bass-ackwards to ignore everything except what you actually care about instead of to just ignore the things you seriously do not care about. Marking threads as favourites, or whatever, and having a page for that seems like it would be the better approach to me. Not that I'm saying I'd use it. I like browsing.

(also I couldn't tell you were sarcastic until I noticed that your so was in italics)