14% TAS: Ice or Speed?

view all posts by CaptainCanada

2007-10-12 06:36:51 pm

Every Bit Counts

I'm thinking or doion a 14% Semi-TAS. Which is better, Ice or Speed? I'm thinking Speed, because of the extra Super Missile pack that I can get. And because it's a Semi-TAS, I don't need to worry about PB refils on Tourain. Can somebody please post the pro's and con's about getting ice or speed? Thanks.

Edit: I'm know thinking of doing a full TAS now. So I want to know which is faster, ice or speed?

Thread title:

CaptainCanada:

registered on 2007-09-19 10:46:02 pm.

CaptainCanada

2007-10-12 10:14:54 pm

Speed is the faster option.

The mother brain fight is way slower with speed, but Ridley is way faster. Draygon is also much faster with speed, assuming you use shinesparks to kill him. I'm not 100% sure, but I think you could 2 round him with Super missiles and shinesparks. I am prettey sure that the total time spent fighting bosses would be smaller with speed.

Of course, speed will also allow you to do several timesaving shinesparks, in addition to just making you move faster.

One word of caution however. While I've never tried it myself, I suspect that getting the metroids to drop power bombs will be very time consuming (in real life), and will require insane patience.

Also, out of curiosity, to what extent will you be using tool-assistance?

GuyPerfect:

registered on 2007-08-31 11:00:25 pm.

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GuyPerfect

2007-10-12 10:54:30 pm

Quote from CaptainCanada:

Speed is the faster option.

Can I subscribe to your newsletter? (-:

chardish:

registered on 2004-12-13 12:42:57 am.

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chardish

2007-10-13 01:11:27 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't blue suit required to pass through the Zebetites without ice? If that's the case, it seems like speed would be slower from the Draygon fight on, since you're unable to dash from there on out.

rekameohs:

registered on 2006-02-21 08:17:36 pm.

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rekameohs

2007-10-13 01:55:22 am

Anywhere, everywhere

Yes, not being able to dash would be pretty costly. Plus, metroids would be far more annoying. I think ice would be faster because of reasons mentioned, plus it can kill non draygon bosses faster.

P.JMan:

registered on 2005-11-30 10:52:21 am.

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P.JMan

2007-10-13 03:07:06 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Do a short charge in the room before the zebetites

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-10-13 03:45:05 am

Hurr Durr

Yes as P.Jman says bluesuit is not needed with short sharge. Though I am not sure I would recomend taking the speedroute in a semi-TAS. Tourian will be extremely hard and overall I don't think you will gain much time on taking speedbooster without a good deal of optimization.

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

Gender: male

2007-10-13 07:57:54 am

Every Bit Counts

So you think that I should take ice? And the olny spot where ice would be faster is in Tourian. The rest of the bosses are faster because of more Super Missiles.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-10-13 08:29:43 am

Hurr Durr

No both ridley and mother brain will be a good deal slower without ice. But sure, if you want you can take speed. Though it will be very hard.

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

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view all posts by hero of the day

2007-10-13 08:45:03 am

Every Bit Counts

OK. I will take ice.

hero of the day:

registered on 2007-02-05 07:46:38 pm.

hero of the day

2007-10-13 10:17:08 am

I have done lots of testing on this very case, and it is still difficult to measure the differences in route. In my current opinion, the speed route is faster for a TAS. The speed route however is not even feasible for a regular speed run, because it requires a super short charge in tourian and absurd luck on the metroid PB drops.

Pros of Speed:
Much faster lower norfair (pillar room, two rooms before ridley, after ridley shinespark, speed ball in the room with the falling spike platforms)
Much faster wrecked ship, only if speed is collected early. This is the most feasible option, because with the speed booster you can skip the crateria lake missile pack and replace it with a super missile pack.
Much MUCH faster maridia. The frozen moctroid glitch can be skipped, the quicksand room can be run through instead of slowly bomb jumped through, the gauntlet shinespark is possible for both before and after draygon.
MUCH MUCH MUCH faster draygon fight. Since your ammo is horrible in a low% run, shinesparks can take out draygon in a very fast 2 rounds.

You may be able to skip the baby metroid too, though it may require wave beam.

Cons:
Slower MB battle, Exactly 100 more shots are required without the ice beam. 1 minute and 40 seconds lost.
Slower Ridley, though not as much due to having 5 more super missiles. Exactly 45 seconds lost.
Much slower tourian using only PBs, roughly 1-2 minutes lost.

The time spent collecting the ice beam is almost the same as the time spent collecting the speed booster, so this is not really anything to consider.

I have done lots of testing on this very case, and it is still difficult to measure the differences in route. In my current opinion, the speed route is faster for a TAS. The speed route however is not even feasible for a regular speed run, because it requires a super short charge in tourian and absurd luck on the metroid PB drops.

Pros of Speed:
Much faster lower norfair (pillar room, two rooms before ridley, after ridley shinespark, speed ball in the room with the falling spike platforms)
Much faster wrecked ship, only if speed is collected early. This is the most feasible option, because with the speed booster you can skip the crateria lake missile pack and replace it with a super missile pack.
Much MUCH faster maridia. The frozen moctroid glitch can be skipped, the quicksand room can be run through instead of slowly bomb jumped through, the gauntlet shinespark is possible for both before and after draygon.
MUCH MUCH MUCH faster draygon fight. Since your ammo is horrible in a low% run, shinesparks can take out draygon in a very fast 2 rounds.

You may be able to skip the baby metroid too, though it may require wave beam.

Cons:
Slower MB battle, Exactly 100 more shots are required without the ice beam. 1 minute and 40 seconds lost.
Slower Ridley, though not as much due to having 5 more super missiles. Exactly 45 seconds lost.
Much slower tourian using only PBs, roughly 1-2 minutes lost.

The time spent collecting the ice beam is almost the same as the time spent collecting the speed booster, so this is not really anything to consider.

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

Gender: male

view all posts by hero of the day

2007-10-13 10:53:51 am

Every Bit Counts

So ice is faster for a Semi-TAS? I think I am going to take ice.

hero of the day:

registered on 2007-02-05 07:46:38 pm.

hero of the day

2007-10-13 11:09:37 am

Depends on the definition of semi-TAS, since it varies per player. Less experienced TASers should start with the ice route because the metroid drops would pose a real challenge otherwise. Also remember that a full TAS has been made and published for several years now which completes the game using the ice route. That run is pretty bad quality for a TAS, so maybe you could make it a goal to beat it's time.

Mr. Shadow:

is in the group Banned.

registered on 2007-10-11 04:46:12 am.

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Mr. Shadow

(user is banned)

2007-10-13 12:54:37 pm

OH ****!!!!

Wait a moment you need the ice beam to defeat the metroids so wouldn't he need that? Regaurdless i would go with ice, its more plausible.^_^

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

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ING-X

2007-10-13 12:57:16 pm

yeah

Quote from hero of the day:

remember that a full TAS has been made and published for several years now which completes the game using the ice route. That run is pretty bad quality for a TAS, so maybe you could make it a goal to beat it's time.

Yeah, that TAS is older than the dinosaurs. Moozooh is also working on beating that time with the Speed route, and I'm making a 7% NBMB run, which depending on the quality may or may not be published at TASvideos. I'm still new to this stuff. :)

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-10-13 01:19:33 pm

Hurr Durr

It might be posted as a glitched to the max low% but I'm not fully sure. They already have 3 runs of Super Metroid and will not gladly add another category, the fourth would (if created) most likely be the NBMB that moozooh and evilchen are working on. Also the pause glitch that will be used will not be appreciated by that many I think... Though I am very interested in seing how fast the game can be completed in this manor, it should be the fastest ingame route.

EDIT: Also I have not said this before and while it is not really the correct thread I thought I might. If you ING-X (or fano7 for that matter) Would want help to do a hard but invaluable trick (Torizo skip is a good example) you can always ask here.

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

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ING-X

2007-10-13 01:35:07 pm

yeah

Quote from Cpadolf:

It might be posted as a glitched to the max low% but I'm not fully sure. They already have 3 runs of Super Metroid and will not gladly add another category, the fourth would (if created) most likely be the NBMB that moozooh and evilchen are working on. Also the pause glitch that will be used will not be appreciated by that many I think... Though I am very interested in seing how fast the game can be completed in this manor, it should be the fastest ingame route.

EDIT: Also I have not said this before and while it is not really the correct thread I thought I might. If you ING-X (or fano7 for that matter) Would want help to do a hard but invaluable trick (Torizo skip is a good example) you can always ask here.

By "quality" I meant how optimized it is, not how much glitching is in it.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-10-13 01:58:50 pm

Hurr Durr

Yeah but I only reflected my thoughs on what chance a 7% run would have to be published if quality was not an issue.

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

Gender: male

view all posts by hero of the day

2007-10-17 05:01:40 pm

Every Bit Counts

So, now that I'm intrested into TASing, is speed faster, or is ice for a TAS? I know ice is the easiest, but how much faster is geting speed over ice or vice-virsa?

hero of the day:

registered on 2007-02-05 07:46:38 pm.

hero of the day

2007-10-17 11:14:44 pm

The simplest answer is that no one knows. The calculations would be so monstrous that it would just be easier to fully tas both routes and look at the end difference. My best educated guess was that the speed route was faster. Though I expect both route to be very close in the end time, speed route is undoubtedly more entertaining.

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

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ING-X

2007-10-18 02:18:47 pm

yeah

Quote from hero of the day:

The simplest answer is that no one knows. The calculations would be so monstrous that it would just be easier to fully tas both routes and look at the end difference. My best educated guess was that the speed route was faster. Though I expect both route to be very close in the end time, speed route is undoubtedly more entertaining.

Yeah, I would go with the speed route since it probably saves more time (since you move faster) and because it's just more entertaining. :)

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

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Tonski

2007-10-18 03:25:41 pm

ING-X:
You wouldn't go with the speed route if you'd get the idea of how shit it is to optimize at some parts. :P

Oh well if I think about it more, with speed route you have to PB those metroids but with Ice route you have to do shitloads of horizontal bomb jumping...

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-10-18 03:31:16 pm

Hurr Durr

Where would he need horizontal bomb jump? Not at the missile lake if you thought so, since that takes more time than it saves to skip the missile (IIRC) so that's a bad idea.

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

Gender: male

2007-10-18 04:05:52 pm

Every Bit Counts

Yeah. IIRC, that is a dbj. You can also use a cwj. Now to think of it, would getting the missile and the cwj at the same time work? Or do you need to get the missiles, go back and do the cwj?

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden