14-15% Questions

view all posts by Kejardon

2007-11-03 07:12:46 am

Hurr Durr

Non TAS I'm pretty sure that ice is the obvious choice, speed ought to be a lot harder.

Though you don't need to keep a bluesuit all the way to tourian, with some good training shortchargeing with stutter walk should be possible before the zebiteroom even unassisted.

Kejardon:

registered on 2004-12-07 07:21:36 pm.

Gender: male

Kejardon

2007-11-03 01:14:41 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

My walkthrough is kinda out of date, but I've never gotten around to actually updating it. Then the message board on GameFAQs kinda got overrun by noobs. I don't like babysitting, so I left.

Anyways, Ice and Speed both allow you to pass the room before Botwoon, and both allow you to skip the Zebetites, by bizarre coincidence. If you skip the Zebetites, you need one less missile pack, and so it goes from 10/15 or 15/10 to 5/15 or 10/10.
Ice Beam makes bosses easier in general, as it does an extra 50% damage over the normal beam. Speed boots really don't offer any advantages anymore, other than you can easily go for 5/15 which can make Ridley easier (super missiles do 600 damage to Ridley, which is massive for Samus's equipment in a low percent run).

Ice beam has a few more tricky spots to pass. The missile moat before the Wrecked Ship is the first: http://www.metroid2002.com/3/skipping_the_speedbooster_crateria.php
This is easiest to do with the wall jump, I think. You have to start by running into the door at the previous room (so Samus is touching it), then open it and run to the right (without speed boots or high jump). In the next room, jump on the LAST moment possible before hitting the water, then you can wall jump without slowing down on the pillar. You can do it even if the missiles are there, but the message box is likely to mess up your timing.
Next is getting to Botwoon... that's explained in the walkthrough and isn't hard when you know what you're doing. Movies on M2K2 of that too: http://www.metroid2002.com/3/skipping_the_speedbooster_maridia.php
The room after Botwoon is apparently difficult too. You have to go under the first speed blocks, then wall jump up into the secret passage so you skip the energy tank. Alternatively you can only get two energy tanks before there and just go straight in the secret passage from the left wall.
And then there's the Zebetites... in the walkthrough and on M2K2 again.

Speed boots gets to shortcharge the zebetites (or keep a blue suit from Draygon). That's a bit harder than it seems actually - the best way I found to practice is to set up a sound that plays at the times you need to press run and practice the timing according to that. Fortunately if you mess up it's quick and easy to try again.
Speed boots also gets to power bomb metroids to death... which isn't *too* hard. Keep in mind you can psuedo screw attack metroids to push them away, and don't worry too much about dieing - they don't drain health that quickly and powerbombs even make them stop draining for a while.

My walkthrough is kinda out of date, but I've never gotten around to actually updating it. Then the message board on GameFAQs kinda got overrun by noobs. I don't like babysitting, so I left.

Anyways, Ice and Speed both allow you to pass the room before Botwoon, and both allow you to skip the Zebetites, by bizarre coincidence. If you skip the Zebetites, you need one less missile pack, and so it goes from 10/15 or 15/10 to 5/15 or 10/10.
Ice Beam makes bosses easier in general, as it does an extra 50% damage over the normal beam. Speed boots really don't offer any advantages anymore, other than you can easily go for 5/15 which can make Ridley easier (super missiles do 600 damage to Ridley, which is massive for Samus's equipment in a low percent run).

Ice beam has a few more tricky spots to pass. The missile moat before the Wrecked Ship is the first: http://www.metroid2002.com/3/skipping_the_speedbooster_crateria.php
This is easiest to do with the wall jump, I think. You have to start by running into the door at the previous room (so Samus is touching it), then open it and run to the right (without speed boots or high jump). In the next room, jump on the LAST moment possible before hitting the water, then you can wall jump without slowing down on the pillar. You can do it even if the missiles are there, but the message box is likely to mess up your timing.
Next is getting to Botwoon... that's explained in the walkthrough and isn't hard when you know what you're doing. Movies on M2K2 of that too: http://www.metroid2002.com/3/skipping_the_speedbooster_maridia.php
The room after Botwoon is apparently difficult too. You have to go under the first speed blocks, then wall jump up into the secret passage so you skip the energy tank. Alternatively you can only get two energy tanks before there and just go straight in the secret passage from the left wall.
And then there's the Zebetites... in the walkthrough and on M2K2 again.

Speed boots gets to shortcharge the zebetites (or keep a blue suit from Draygon). That's a bit harder than it seems actually - the best way I found to practice is to set up a sound that plays at the times you need to press run and practice the timing according to that. Fortunately if you mess up it's quick and easy to try again.
Speed boots also gets to power bomb metroids to death... which isn't *too* hard. Keep in mind you can psuedo screw attack metroids to push them away, and don't worry too much about dieing - they don't drain health that quickly and powerbombs even make them stop draining for a while.

moozooh:

registered on 2006-01-11 12:51:46 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Moscow

view all posts by moozooh

moozooh

2007-12-01 07:02:01 pm

That would mean going back to Crateria to restock powerbombs because you won't ever have a perfect luck with drops in an unassisted run… Ice is definitely the way to go, both time-wise and effort-wise.

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

2008-01-06 05:33:47 am

Could someone post the items I'm going to pick in a 14% Ice route run? In the order I'd pick them up.

I'm thinking of 14% console run after too many 100% and any% runs.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2008-01-06 05:46:32 am

Hurr Durr

Morphball
Missiles
Bombs
E-tank
Supers
Charge
Varia
E-tank
Ice
Power bombs
Missiles
Supers
Gravity
E-tank

That I imagine is the easiest route.

Lance Uppercut:

registered on 2006-12-30 05:56:19 pm.

2008-01-06 08:57:56 am

Yup, that is the route I planned to use on my own 14% ice route.

Ice is definitely the way to go in an unassisted run. It eases up the boss fights a little, zebetite glitching is much easier to do and your speed does not really suffer significantly from the lack of Speed Booster anyway. The only bad thing is that it ruins the possibility for 5 missiles/15 supers due to that lake pillar missile pack.

I was thinking about trying the run single-segmented, but there are several parts that might ruin your attempt, like pre-WS lake DBJ, Draygon, Ridley and most importantly the Mother Brain fight (being the very last hard obstacle) so I gave up on that. Might be interesting to do it in less segments than Smokey´s run though.

Quote from Kejardon:

The room after Botwoon is apparently difficult too. You have to go under the first speed blocks, then wall jump up into the secret passage so you skip the energy tank. Alternatively you can only get two energy tanks before there and just go straight in the secret passage from the left wall.

Wow, I never realized this passage existed in the original SM too, never had to use it. I though it was SM:Impossible -thingie only. =)
Well it is not that hard to go under the blocks and enter that passage, you do have Gravity and all...
That one is nice, the level designer must have given some thought to low% runs on this game too (making items skippable like that).

Yup, that is the route I planned to use on my own 14% ice route.

Ice is definitely the way to go in an unassisted run. It eases up the boss fights a little, zebetite glitching is much easier to do and your speed does not really suffer significantly from the lack of Speed Booster anyway. The only bad thing is that it ruins the possibility for 5 missiles/15 supers due to that lake pillar missile pack.

I was thinking about trying the run single-segmented, but there are several parts that might ruin your attempt, like pre-WS lake DBJ, Draygon, Ridley and most importantly the Mother Brain fight (being the very last hard obstacle) so I gave up on that. Might be interesting to do it in less segments than Smokey´s run though.

[quote="Kejardon"]
The room after Botwoon is apparently difficult too. You have to go under the first speed blocks, then wall jump up into the secret passage so you skip the energy tank. Alternatively you can only get two energy tanks before there and just go straight in the secret passage from the left wall.[/quote]

Wow, I never realized this passage existed in the original SM too, never had to use it. I though it was SM:Impossible -thingie only.  =)
Well it is not that hard to go under the blocks and enter that passage, you do have Gravity and all...
That one is nice, the level designer must have given some thought to low% runs on this game too (making items skippable like that).

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

2008-01-06 10:17:55 am

Quote from Cpadolf:

Supers
Gravity
E-tank

Is that the WS etank or where it would be the fastest to get? I think post-Botwoon?

Lance Uppercut:

registered on 2006-12-30 05:56:19 pm.

2008-01-06 10:34:56 am

After Botwoon. It is right on the way and it is faster not to avoid it so yeah.

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

view all posts by ducknerd

2008-01-06 10:38:19 am

Kiitos. :)

Thanks really now I can begin my run.

ducknerd:

registered on 2006-12-23 11:16:33 am.

Gender: male

Location: Not where you are

ducknerd

Edit history:

ducknerd: 2008-01-06 11:48:52 am

2008-01-06 11:45:24 am

Eschews avatars

I'd recommend checking out Terimakasih's 14% TAS; it has what's probably the fastest route. Its flaws for a console run:

*requires 3 consecutive, perfect damage boosts (this frustration is avoidable by saving in the WS after Phantoon)
*very difficult Lower Norfair, esp. the shaft between the two acid rooms; Teri's strat, while seemingly simple, is not workable in a console run. Any workaround I've found involves using a lot of ammo.
*As if Ridley weren't hard enough, you have to face him with two tanks. Circumventable by taking the hi-jump tank and skipping the post-Botwoon one, costing you a few seconds, but meh.
*I haven't tested the Draygon fight, but jeez, that won't be easy
*AMMO MANAGEMENT. This'll be a real problem later on, as both Ridley and Draygon by default drain all your ammo, and after the WS, you won't be anywhere near your ship.

Good luck, though! I tried my hand at this a while back, so I hope this gives you an idea of what you're getting into. SDA really needs that third category!

EDIT: Wooooo! 0x100th post!

I'd recommend checking out Terimakasih's 14% TAS; it has what's probably the fastest route. Its flaws for a console run:

*requires 3 consecutive, perfect damage boosts (this frustration is avoidable by saving in the WS after Phantoon)
*very difficult Lower Norfair, esp. the shaft between the two acid rooms; Teri's strat, while seemingly simple, is not workable in a console run. Any workaround I've found involves using a lot of ammo.
*As if Ridley weren't hard enough, you have to face him with two tanks. Circumventable by taking the hi-jump tank and skipping the post-Botwoon one, costing you a few seconds, but meh.
*I haven't tested the Draygon fight, but jeez, that won't be easy
*AMMO MANAGEMENT. This'll be a real problem later on, as both Ridley and Draygon by default drain all your ammo, and after the WS, you won't be anywhere near your ship.

Good luck, though! I tried my hand at this a while back, so I hope this gives you an idea of what you're getting into. SDA really needs that third category!

EDIT: Wooooo! 0x100th post!

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

2008-01-06 12:51:32 pm

Crateria etank, post-Botwoon etank, Kraid etank. Ridley with 2? Where'd you come up with that?

And I'm not recording my run sorry. :P This would be labeled as PAL-version 14% and I'd like to record it but I won't due to few things:
a) I have no DVD recorder, and SDA no longer accepts VHS
b) WS missile lake DBJ would have to be first try if aiming for speed = 端ber frustration on console + I suck at DBJ

Sorry.

Lance Uppercut:

registered on 2006-12-30 05:56:19 pm.

Edit history:

Lance Uppercut: 2008-01-06 04:20:22 pm

2008-01-06 02:25:02 pm

Yeah, I think completing this kind of run at first is an accomplishment in itself.

Duck was probably talking about Teri´s low% run where he faces Ridley with 2 e-tanks. That is a minor thing that is corrected in console conditions. Nevertheless, Ridley will be very hard without the hi-jump. Time to develop a different strat fighting him. Smokey had good strategy but it requires patience. I guess Ridley does mostly that tail-attack when you don´t jump during the fight. How many ice shots do you need in addition to 10 missiles and 10 supers (and 5 power bombs) ?

Though I must say, going to WS first seems interesting. That spike room leading to Gravity suit is very passable with one tank, Teri takes two damage boosts that take 60hp both and he ends up with 78 so there is even room for one more.

Even if not aiming for speed, I think some 1:30 would be a reasonable time to accomplish.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

view all posts by ducknerd

2008-01-06 10:41:01 pm

Hurr Durr

The maximum damage you can make with low% ammo is 1000 for the missiles 6000 for the supers and 2000 for the PB's (though it is not likely that you will make that much damage with PB's hitting ridley twice without taking damage from him would be hard I think) So that makes it 100 charged ice shots. So if you take into account that you likely miss some shots missiles and PB damage it would probably be ~140-150 shots.

ducknerd:

registered on 2006-12-23 11:16:33 am.

Gender: male

Location: Not where you are

ducknerd

2008-01-07 12:55:46 am

Eschews avatars

I was indeed talking about that video, in which he takes the boss order Phantoon->Kraid->Ridley (only one Norfair trip total)->Draygon, therefore facing Ridley minus one tank.

Woops, I automatically assumed it was a speed run. Good luck anyhow! Very Happy

Also, in my experience, three damage boosts *barely* makes it on console.

Lance Uppercut:

registered on 2006-12-30 05:56:19 pm.

2008-01-07 06:10:17 am

Quote from ducknerd:

Also, in my experience, three damage boosts *barely* makes it on console.

You mean like this? (smv)

attachment:

Gravity spike room.smv

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

2008-01-07 06:40:15 am

CURSE YOU DIAGONAL BOMB JUMP!!

I just almost threw my SNES controller at wall with all my power because of all the failures with DBJ after hours of trying. I hope I didn't smash it too hard... This is probably the only spot where I really lose my nerves with this run, Draygon and Phantoon feel easy mofos compared to teh almighty DBJ... I mean I can get it to work but it never takes me the full distance, or I unmorph in air and the bomb just throws me in the water annoying me to the limits... :( :( :(

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2008-01-07 07:03:01 am

Hurr Durr

You could always try CWJ, should be about as hard but at least it will be a breath of fresh air.

Lance Uppercut:

registered on 2006-12-30 05:56:19 pm.

Pillar CWJ unassisted.smv

2008-01-08 08:36:21 am

Here is pillar CWJ unassisted, it is not that hard after some practice. Now I can get it about 20% of the whole time, which is pretty good already.

attachment:

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2008-01-08 12:05:36 pm

Hurr Durr

Yeah I also tested it some, not that hard but still kind of annoying (since you have to re-enter the room every time you fail). The first jump has to be on the absolute last frame possible and this is IMO the hard part of the trick, I only get it somewhere around 10-20% of the time, (but that is with very little training) the other jump has a success window of 2 frames and I can get it ~75% of the time. DBJ i get 1% of the time or less.

Lance Uppercut:

registered on 2006-12-30 05:56:19 pm.

2008-01-08 01:36:27 pm

2 frames really? Wow, I guess that is enough to react then =)
I think too that the hardest part of this CWJ is the first jump. Anyone want to test alternative places that lead to same spot but with a little more marginal to fail? =)
(yes, I know it is all the same, that jump has to be quite accurate)

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2008-01-08 02:47:17 pm

Hurr Durr

No there should be no easier way to make the first jump, you have to jump all the way to the roof to make a realtime CWJ possible and that only leaves you with one frame of margin wherever you start.

And it's not really weird that the CWJ jump is so easily timed even though the widow is only 2 frames, you can see quite clearly where to make the jump and 2 frames is not that small really, a walljump only have a 6 frame window and that is not hard at all to do consecutively.

Kriole:

registered on 2007-10-31 03:52:27 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Sueeden!

view all posts by Kriole

Kriole

2008-01-08 03:35:21 pm

Meri Kurisumasu! ^_^

Quote from Cpadolf:

And it's not really weird that the CWJ jump is so easily timed even though the widow is only 2 frames, you can see quite clearly where to make the jump and 2 frames is not that small really, a walljump only have a 6 frame window and that is not hard at all to do consecutively.

AFAIK there is only a 1 frame window on a CWJ. And you don't need to jump into the roof to carry out the CWJ, just refresh your forward key; calling a new walljump animation.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden